edit: seems like some people interpret “full of” as a mathematical majority which, while it may or might not be true instance to instance, isn’t my intent in posting
feel free to swap in “has a lot of” if that’s more familiar language to you :)
Don’t leave the basement and you wont have to worry about the weather
I’m with you. I live in a red state in the north, in a small island of blue, but if I drive for a few minutes in any direction it’s trump signs & bigotry.
I feel like I’m surrounded by idiots. They’re bringing my state down with them. It’s horrifying.
Sending love ❤️ I truly hate to see would be-“progressives” laughing at the senseless deaths and violence just because some 30% of them voted a certain way.
It’s one of the ways that capital keeps the culture war lit, I find. Breed hatred and dehumanization for a people group while gleefully stripping that people group from self-determination at every opportunity.
I’m seeing a very ugly side around Lemmy the last couple of days. It’s nice to see posts like this!
If something is despicable when your adversary does it, then it is despicable when you do it.
We are not immune to propaganda! ❤️ It’s on all of us to help each other out, finding our blind spots.
Eh… I live in the cousin-fuckingly-deep South. In a city, and I work in a hospital, so I think it’s pretty safe to say this is one of the more left leaning bubbles within a hundred miles. …and there are still a fuckton of Nazis here.
There are absolutely decent people trapped here, but we’re legit outnumbered. It isn’t just gerrymandering or some shitty system at fault: the majority of southerners are just fucking evil.
There’s always some thinly veiled excuse - “We don’t hate women, we just want to protect the babies!” “We don’t hate immigrants, we just want to protect our jobs!” “We don’t hate trans people, we just want to protect our bathrooms!” but when you hear them talk amongst themselves about those people it’s pretty clear they really do just hate them.
Most southerners are sincerely not good people.
There are absolutely decent people trapped here, but we’re legit outnumbered. It isn’t just gerrymandering or some shitty system at fault: the majority of southerners are just fucking evil.
This. I remember moving from a conservative area in a border state, to the South for a short time, and being absolutely floored by the things that were quite openly said and laughed about. And I was no wilting violet, I was already quite used to hearing vile shit.
“Every population is secretly filled with our allies!” is delusional.
As someone who relocated to the south after being born and raised outside the south, I can confirm that the majority of people here are truly fucking evil. This place is horrific.
I’m so sorry and thank you for sharing. I hope you can be a light to your community while also keeping safe and healthy. We’re with you homie ✊❤️
(edit: i came to an understanding with the person im responding to and i was not happy with how this comment was worded so deleting it because it wasn’t contributing)
I mean for sure it’s the entire country, with only depressingly slight variations in concentration one way or the other - but your image is about southerners specifically, so that’s what I addressed.
…and honestly, it scales up as high as you want to take it - for the most part, humans are just evil sacks of shit.
There ya go. I fully agree with you here. 👍 Sending love to you as “one of the good ones.” (Sorry that sounds mean but I don’t know how to put it XD)
[Again apologies if my initial comment came off as abrasive. My entire post is a reaction to some crowds cheering on the recent tragedy in Texas and it’s clear now you are not anywhere near a part of that crowd and I misread the situation.]
No worries at all. Typing is a shitty medium for this kind of conversation: tone is mostly lost. I’m guilty all the time of making posts that sound 10x angrier than I intended. …or angry at all: usually I’m bouncing somewhere between numb, depressed, or caffeine-induced mania. I’m not really ever mad or aggressive; but then I’ll re-read a post I made the day prior and realize it comes off as absolutely pissed which is pretty much never the intention at the time of posting.
I do tend to use profanity pretty casually… maybe it’s that?
But yeah, when in doubt, read an internet-stranger’s post in the voice of Eeyore. Sometimes the words alone just don’t do the trick.
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With the victory of the current administration, you are applying a description of unequivocally the entire nation and relagating it only to those of the lowest income, those closest to historical slavery, and those with the fewest educational opportunities.
As another person who works in a hospital of one of the poorest and most conservative states in the union…I don’t think you really know what you are talking about.
First of all, there is no such thing as a basic definition of what makes up good people and bad people. You can be good to your family and your neighbors and be incredibly racist, bigoted, or just unempathetic towards anyone else outside your daily life.
What I notice about the South the most is the inability to be compassionate to anyone who isn’t right in front of them.
think if you engage more thoughtfully with historical realities you might begin to come to a different understanding.
Historical realities can negatively shape culture… What about the Souths history leads you to believe that most of southerners are “good people” and how exactly do you quantify good?
No offense, but do you live in the South? And if so…are you a person of color or another minority, because if not you may not be getting the full experience.
most of southerners are “good people”
Strawman, reread the entire post bud.Looks like they just misunderstood.“The south is full of good people” (verbatim quote from my post, objectively true, yes from my own experience and yes minorities) DOES NOT mean “most of southerners are good people” (verbatim YOUR bad-faith interpretation of my post).Feel free to try again but as a principle I don’t defend positions I never said in my life.Strawman, reread the entire post bud.
I think that’s a pedantic dispute considering you’ve made rebuttals against people claiming that good people were out numbered. Plus, what does “full of” even mean when it comes to judging the general morality of southern people? I think the generalization of the south being full of good people reads quite a bit differently than there are some good people in the South.
objectively true, yes from my own experience and yes minorities)
Generalities cannot be objectively true… Implying that something is full of good people implies a majority, as in a glass fullof milk, is not also full of water.
ah. feel free to swap in “lots of” instead of “full of” then.
sounds like a regional misunderstanding which you unintentionally misconstrued.
people are not liquids in containers. something like “the government is full of corruption” doesn’t mean “more than fifty percent of government workers are corrupt” it just means “lots of corrupt people in government, can’t ignore that” and i would be more than willing to swap the verbage
glad to clear this up as i genuinely didn’t expect that that would be misunderstood
sounds like a regional misunderstanding which you unintentionally misconstrued.
Maybe it’s a regional thing…but I don’t think I’m the only one who interpreted it that way.
But yeah, there are plenty of decent people in the South, I wouldn’t argue against that. I would argue it’s a smaller minority than in some of the other places I’ve lived though.
but I don’t think I’m the only one who interpreted it that way.
i recognize that! good to know for the future and i also put an edit to the OP to clarify
🤝
Since 2013 we’ve seen disenfranchisement in Alabama in real time. Require strict new voter id, then close the DMVs in black and left leaning areas. Combine polling places in democratic leaning areas so they are further away and have long lines. Move polling places so they are no longer accessible by bus. Those are just the obvious ones, but the Republicans’ strategy has been to do anything they can to stop people from voting.
i would love so hard some legislation that requires voting ids on contingency that independent local sources find that access to ids are hugely increased
which means it will never happen but hey a girl can dream
Most folks in the south are good, honest, hard-working people - but the levels of propaganda aimed at keeping people ignorant and blaming minorities for systemic issues are hard to overstate. That coupled with a crumbling education system, poverty, and voter suppression is what keeps the south voting against the best interests of the majority of people.
The average Southern voter is just trying to do the right thing with the information they have access to. Doesn’t make them any less wrong, but it does make the situation more morally complex.
It always makes me sad when I see people in Left spaces saying things like “it serves them right” etc etc when disasters occur. Sure, the majority of voters may have voted for policies that caused these things, but they are ignorant and have been lied to their whole lives. Not to mention all the folks who have been disenfranchised by the system.
BS, unless they’re illiterate. They voted for the disaster and worse yet, Project 2025. “It serves them right,” and they can continue to eat shit.
No. Hard stop NO. Ignorance is no longer an acceptable excuse. They all have access to the same internet as the rest of us and all have the ability to verify the things they see and hear. Most choose not to.
I’ll accept gerrymandering and some other hard physical barriers but ignorance and lack of education is no longer acceptable.
They do not have access to the same internet. Just see how Facebook’s algorithm decides what to show you based on your IP and usage history and a bajillion other factors. And how Google changes the search results based on IP too. They don’t choose not to verify the things they see; those things were presented as the truth to them in the first place.
Critical thinking skills are essential for that, and they stopped teaching that a long time ago. It’s not enough to have access to information, you have to have the skills to judge and interpret it. This is why misinformation is such a problem, people literally don’t have the skills to distinguish between it and actual facts
Nobody ever taught me that either but I figured it out. I wish this didn’t need to be taught at all.
It isn’t the schools’ responsibility to give you every damn skill necessary to be a functioning adult. We keep trying to put the blame somewhere where it doesn’t belong.
Who’s responsibility is our? The parents? The ones who were themselves indoctrinated? The point of mentioning schools is to say that the reliable baseline of public education isn’t so reliable anymore, so all they have is propaganda filtered through their parents and community.
It’s not about placing blame, it’s about diagnosing the causes and devising a fitting solution.
So what you’re saying is they can vote to fuck up the country and suppress other peoples freedoms. They can vote to instill pain fear and chaos in other peoples lives. But when the consequences of their vote bites them in the ass all of a sudden we need to have empathy and grace? Libs like you are why we are in this mess with fascism to begin with.
So? When the Internet exists to easily see the proof of reality, they are not blameless for taking in lies
I lived in VA. From 2nd to 9th grade pre-internet. Now VA. Is South but it’s not west va., Mississippi, or Tennessee south. Even back then, you could spend an afternoon in a library and alleviate yourself of a lot of bad information unintentionally just by looking up that information. I know because I did. I’d hear grownups around me say sketchy shit and look into it. It’s even easier to do so now. Just the act of seeking clarity can bring some small pieces of enlightenment. A lot of people didn’t bother then and wouldn’t now.
What’s happening is post-truth BS. People just choosing to believe whatever the fuck they want, often without any verification.
Are some people being led astray? Absolutely. But they’re also allowing themselves to be. People have been trying to convince southerners (and others) for decades, of not a century, that they’re being screwed over and the people they vote in are doing the screwing but many just flatly refuse to look into it at all and just keep going on blind faith. What happened to personal responsibility and self-agency? Not to mention that some people are just dumpster fires given human form and those people definitely deserve to reap what they sow.
I don’t wish hardship on anyone but if a person continually brings hardship on themselves through their own, thoughts, votes, and actions, while ignoring all the warnings being handed out like candy at Halloween, I don’t find it surprising that others feel less inclined to be sympathetic let alone empathetic with their plight.
It’s because most people are intellectually lazy.
It’s far easier to believe trusted sources than look things up yourself.
While that may be an explanation. It’s no excuse.
Obviously not. Why would you feel the need to say that?
Yeah, someone told me yesterday that the people in Kabul deserve to have no assistance, “because they chose the Taliban”.
I mean, that’s certainly a perspective.
It’s just hard to swallow that people choose to ignore reams of facts they have access to because they “disagree” with them.
i guess, but they voted for that too
the voting rights act was only in 1965. in a significant number of cases, no they did not
the 19th amendment was in 1920. in a significant number of cases, no they could not
it is demonstrably harder to vote if you are poor and harder to vote informedly if you are poor and uneducated all the way through 2025. no they did not vote for this.
thank you for proving exactly why this post needs to exist. class consciousness, not culture war.
people are changing the gerrymandering lines at some regularity and those people and their changes are quite specifically put in place on purpose and the voters continue to go down that road because they want the result of having more voting power. so yeah, they voted for it
Those examples are from 105 and 60 years ago.
There are ways to make the point you’re going for, but invoking legislation that old doesn’t do it.Am I sympathetic to people who are ignorant and so voted against their own interests? Sure, a bit. A lot of southerners would take issue with trying to defend them with cries of "don’t blame them, they’re too stupid to agree with me!” though.
Am I sympathetic to people who have been systematically disenfranchised and economically abandoned? Of course, I’m not a monster.The fact remains that a lot of people in red states earnestly believe in what they vote for. You can talk about class consciousness all you want, but the people fighting the culture doing so because of manipulation by the rich or powerful in a class war does fuck all to help the people loosing said culture war. I’m sure the suicidal trans kid takes great comfort that the people voting to make them illegal are just misled.
They’ve had every opportunity to inform themselves. Maybe eventually they’ll hurt themselves enough to stop fighting the culture war you don’t want others to fight.
60 years isn’t even close to life expectancy. so we are talking less than a lifetime ago. MLK’s daughter is alive, 62 years old (younger than most people in government) and posting on instagram about the same struggles her father fought.
plus did you even read the part about ongoing class disenfranchisement in 2025 (poor people being kept from voting)?
not even reading the rest of your comment since you couldn’t do the same for me. thanks for being such a genuine participant in this conversation.
I did actually read your comment, I just didn’t entirely agree with you you condescending ass.
MLKs daughter never voted without the civil rights act. You forgot to add 18 to the age someone would need to be to have voted before the act passed.
Most of the southern electorate is neither 78 or older, or even 60.
The point was that it’s not a convincing argument, not that someone isn’t alive who was impacted.I’m not sure what class disenfranchisement has to do with the part you’re angry about. Maybe if you actually read what I said you’d have seen where I mentioned it for the rest of the comment.
If you’re not even going to read what people say, you have no grounds to complain that people aren’t “being a genuine participant”.
I can’t do shit about that in Pennsylvania. You’d think there would have been more an effort to disprove the allegations or fix the problems sometime between 1865 and now.
Guess what! People in the south frequently can’t do shit about it either. If you would like to blame this on the people who live there for not voting correctly, please explain to me what you think ‘gerrymandering’ and ‘disenfranchisement’ mean, and what the average person living in the south is supposed to do about this shit being greenlit by SCOTUS.
Both things can be true: vote manipulation measures and voters choosing horribly.
The victims of the vote manipulation aren’t a random accident, it’s mostly leaving Republican voters standing by design. If legislation swept through other states that put the same voting requirements and gerrymandered districts as a lot of southern states have in place, they would probably also start to become real Republican shitholes without anyone’s values or voting patterns changing.
I’m not sure what you mean but I still stand behind people having choice while also they’re being pushed to choose poorly.
And every time a city tries to do something good, the state steps in and stops it. This happens daily in Birmingham, Alabama where the state is constantly overturning things the city has passed or the state takes the ability away from the city.
They got guns, don’t they?
You are maybe being sardonic but you’re touching on a real poignant issue that’s worth investigating.
Notice how the NRA conveniently backs the oligarchic state? The average NRA member owns something like 17 guns. That is, they can afford 17 guns. NRA members are wealthy.
This is not an accident. Poverty has been weaponized to keep the majority-white, upper to middle class the ones that are armed, while the working class, the people of color, queer people, women, migrants, tend to be less armed and less able to organize.
Of course these are all trends, or tendencies, not hard and fast rules (plenty of Black or Queer Texans own guns), but on the whole, and especially in combination with a militarized, capital serving, police force it had a real dampening effect on ability to resist oppression.
There are rights organizations that work across state borders for these causes. Not trying to shame, just putting out there that there are outlets for your talents, time, money, or even just verbal support.
I solve this by not liking anyone anywhere.
I don’t care about the color of your skin, your gender identity, your sexual identity, your political identity, what country your from, or your legal status here, I hate all humans equally, I just want to be left alone.
<freeze frame>
Narrator: And that children was the prophet who taught us to hate equally and mind your damn business.
im a progressive because i want nazis to have healthcare
and im a liberal because i want them to need it
that’s totally okay! this is the politics community not the “who do we like” community lol
Yeah, I doubt it.
I meant the image for clarification
There’s like a ton of comments in this thread already from people who say “I am a good person on your side being oppressed in this area” but go on tell them they’re wrong about existing lol
Do explain how gerrymandering affects the presidential election. All votes are counted for the entire state.
I get that it affects local elections. That is obvious.
That’s actually easy.
The shape of the district gets decided based on the concentration of votes for one party. The goal is to make enough districts with enough concentration of your voters that you always win those districts, and make the rest of the state have few enough districts with enough of a mix of of voters for both parties that A) the for-sure districts can’t be lost and B) the not-for-sure districts can never oppose the for-sure districts as long as they remain under your party’s control.
So all the rigging party needs to do is campaign enough in the for-sure districts that they can’t lose, and campaign enough in the not-for-sure districts that their opponent can’t win. And then because of the Electoral College, all of the states votes go to the rigged party.
??? But as the OP said that’s not how Presidential elections work. Gerrymandering does not affect presidential elections at all.
As he already said, it affects local elections like Congressional districts.
*with the exception of Nebraska and Maine, who use proportional allocation of electoral votes based on districts.
Not proportional. FPTP per district.
Indirect influence versus direct consequence
I feel less sympathetic for many conservative states than this image would encourage, but even though gerrymandering doesn’t impact presidential elections directly it does impact state legislatures who then control the rules around presidential elections.
Every vote is counted, which is why there’s focus on voter suppression. If your legislature decides to make it harder to vote in liberal or more densely populated areas, voter turnout will naturally skew conservative. Same for shifting requirements to focus on criteria less often met by demographics that don’t support you, or changing the criteria for purging the voter registry and making it harder to register.Gerrymander secretary of state race
Geryrmander governor race
Gerrymander state Senate and house races
Pass disenfranchisement rules and laws
…?
ProfitRead a bit of the Kemp wiki and found this unrelated gem:
“Georgia was one of 14 states that used electronic voting machines that produced no paper record, which election integrity experts say left elections vulnerable to tampering and technical problems”
Well. I see no problems that could arise from that 😑
I mean, technically still not any gerrymandering in the presidential elections. Just making sure we understand what the word means. Otherwise we can extend the meaning to say something like: poverty leads to zoning of the empoverished which leads to gerrymandering. That doesn’t mean that poverty = gerrymandering
Reminder that most states, while the majority may have gone for one candidate or the other, were still mostly under a 60/40 split
The States with the most landslide victory for trump where all northern states, Wyoming, West Virginia, and North Dakota, and even those were just 70/30 splits.
Thats many people who did not want this president. The South is not some unanimous bloc
The fact that Hillary Clinton can get nearly 3 million more votes and lose in 2016, and how Al Gore won the popular vote against George W. Bush in 2000 and somehow Florida, where the governor at the time was Jeb Bush, held significant power in deciding who the next president was going to be, is kinda fucked.
technically the electoral college and gerrymandering are not the same thing, but yeah i would honestly totally agree that the EC belongs in the list of oppressive forces in the meme (i stole the post otherwise i would edit it lol)
no one claimed gerrymandering affects presidential elections, not directly certainly. but local regressive policies and disenfranchisement also hurt oppressed people daily; that’s why all three are up there.
(one could make some pretty valid connections between local elections and lobbying money going towards national campaigns, so we can discuss that if you want but just to keep it accessible and evidence based for now)
Do explain how gerrymandering affects the presidential election. All votes are counted for the entire state.
Do explain how disenfranchisement works.
Also, if you don’t understand gerrymandering, here is a great article.
Different word, different meaning.
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thank you for proving exactly why this posts needs to exist. class consciousness, not culture war.
Given the luxury of that choice, I’d be right there with you but sometimes we just have to fight the war that is waged upon us even if that means stepping down off our high horses to do so. “At least I was polite” won’t do me much good when Jim-Bob and Jethro (between moonshine-fueled arguments over whose turn it is to get their sister pregnant again) blow my head off for being a filthy Yankee.
These backwoods redneck pieces of shit you describe are the fucking scum of the earth. It’s frustrating how they live in their own little white trash world, forever insulated from the consequences of their actions and beliefs. They have the state, the church, and their community enabling them in their ignorance. I wish I could pluck one of them out of their sleepy little mudhole town and drop them in the bay area and watch them have a fucking aneurism after being treated the way they treat outsiders. The difference however is that they would deserve it for being Nazi trash.
