I hate posts about some vocal asshat complaining about something being woke. Anybody who uses the word woke derogatory is an asshole who doesn’t deserve a moment of my attention.
Eh nu trek is insipid shallow swill that wields their supposed moral authority like a hammer without true consideration for the nuance of humanity.
I completely agree with this. Old Trek at least pretended to have a debate about Right vs Wrong, and chose Right.
New Trek just choosed Right from the get-go and smiles condescendingly at Wrong for being Wrong.
Like, sure, I agree with everything it’s saying. I just hate the arrogance with which it says it.
STD and picard is pretty much the reason why they start calling it woke, they dint care of the plot/and the series were crappy, just that the showrunners try to overemphasize certain characthers that they are not white, and straight and men. also the problem with STD, was naming an unlikable characther/actor as the lead role and to captain with a name that is only assigned to one gender, they were hoping this is a distraction for a poor series/writing overall. an analagous media, is J lawrence being a goodie two shoes, mary sue about her importance.
Honestly just miss everyone working together. I only did about 1.5 seasons each of Picard and Discovery, but I just couldn’t take all the “the enemy is each other”. If I wanted that I’d watch the expanse? Ftr I will watch them in entirety and fully judge at that point, rn I haven’t so can’t say they offer nothing. SNW seems to get it though which I appreciate and hope continues. There are so few optimistic sci-fi shows I really want trek to stick to that niche.
Idk, I think Discovery just sucks.
Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks kick ass, though.
Edit: Discovery and Picard. Picard sucks ass, too. I just cannot force myself further than episode two.
Picard sucks
But how can this be? They are shoving so much fan service down your throat.
std was the worst, picard you would think its a post-NEMESIS series which ideally be good as it would follow the arcs of the previous,etc. but it was so bad.
lower decks while it was better, wouldve been better without all the constant comedy, theres a time and place for comedy but for a scifi should be kept to a minimum.
That’s fair.
Try Picard season three though, that was way better than seasons 1&2. :-)
I liked the first few minutes of Picard but nothing after.
It annoys me that new trek got wrapped up in this discourse because my dislike of it is because of the image above
Old trek was super “woke” and optimistic, I see new trek as too focused on war and it paints the future as though they never achieved luxury space communism free of scarcity
I think your comment could reasonably apply to early Discovery and Picard, but not so much to the rest of nuTrek. It could equally apply to DS9 and Enterprise - but not so much to the rest oldTrek (Voyager might straddle the line).
I think it’s most accurate to say that Star Trek as a whole has generally shown alternating waves of reifying and challenging the utopian future concept. Overall that gives a message that a better society can be achieved, but the work of living up to that vision can never end. It works for me.
nutrek was bad from start to finish, lowerdecks and prodigy was much better shows than the kurtzman 3 he did.
Old trek was super “woke” and optimistic, I see new trek as too focused on war and it paints the future as though they never achieved luxury space communism free of scarcity
At least on that front, it seemed to be rather conditional. If you were not an organic humanoid, you had a much more difficult time.
Just look at Measure of a Man, and what Starfleet later tried to pull with Lal, or what happened on the Sutherland. Or the ExoComps. Or what happened to the deprecated EMH Mk. I units, and the Voyager’s EMH and his holonovel. Or the UGLY BAGS OF MOSTLY WATER crystal aliens. Or the Horta. Or Hugh.
I cannot imagine that the Federation would have ordered the developing a form of memetic virus that would telepathically spread amongst the Klingon population and wipe them all out when they were at war with the Empire.
But they did order it against the Borg, intending to use Hugh as a vector.
Yes, and it was shown as a huge internal conflict in TNG, and honestly even TOS had a bunch of inconsistent morality that didn’t quite fit a utopian society, you have a lot of state secrets, a lot of espionage, paranoia, and a cold war that includes violating the prime directive on a regular basis as long as they think the Klingons will also violate around the same degree, and that’s really not a very good idea, I really doubt the Vulcans would arm a bronze age civilization on a developing planet with muskets if they thought the Klingons might also do That.
i remember its the reason why the borg even exist, someone mention gene roddenberrry was fighting people that the parasites in that one episode was susceptible to evil and corruption if they are bieng controlled. so they created a borg as a compromise. the episode where the parasites was controlling star trek command and it sent a signal to the delta quadrant, sound familiar just the like borg.
The idea of the borg feel more like “hey, the federation sounds suspiciously like communism that works, can’t we introduce “evil communism” to show how evil it is”?
i think the parasites were suppose to be the og borg, but gene or someone dint like that idea, that the starfleet can ben controlled by an alien.
Sounds probable judging from the stories of the writers fighting Roddenberry’s story mandates. And as soon as he was dead, they did the infiltrating founders anyway on DS9.
that episode was wierd, since everyone thought there was a followup. because they send the big bad signal to the delta quadrant which indicates they were from there about to invade, the queen that was controlling the host had the "map of sectors in the background, which i was taken to say he was sending it there). later replaced by the borg which did the same thing.
I think that, starting with the Marquis, Trek was trying to address issues that might arise even with luxury space communism.
deleted by creator
“It’s easy to be a saint in paradise.”
If only Rick Berman would’ve let us have luxury gay space communism this wouldn’t have happened
It’s easier on the writers when they take away all the easy. There’s an episode of DS9 where the Defiant’s computer is broken and they have to do everything manually. The scene of them undocking and leaving ds9 was pretty dramatic. It let them show off the crew’s hyper competency without the use of the future tech.
I really hated when Discovery jumped to a post apocalypse future, but those ended up being the best seasons of the show.
they jumped 900years in the future to get away from thier horrible 2 seasons. i once so a trailer for s4, yup as i predicted they went all in margianalized the other people in the show that made trek great.
That argument is indeed stupid, but Kurtzman Trek is inferior in every other way.
- the plots are often incoherent
- the tone strays too far from what made classic Star Trek compelling
- the overuse of action and spectacle comes at the expense of thoughtful Sci fi
- Character development feels shallow to nonexistent
- and so much more
Everything is just bad.
dint kurtzman do the transformer series? i dont know why he was chose for this. almost end of every season, was universing ending event, the exact same plot as the previous season, and then they drop it the next seasons. remember the horrible klingon look, and thier cloaking, people had so much issues they partially dropped it on the 2nd season, and "Escaped to the 31st " century.
That’s my impression from DIS, but isn’t SNW supposed to be decent?
snw was too robotic, seems like the actors were being forced to say those lines every scene. they had good premise but the execution was poor, as the other 2 series. picard was equally cringey as std, again they had so MUCH history they can use for the show, but it ended falling flat, and they were using source material from fan novels. (the friendly borg, the rogue changelings,etx) all came from various novels.
prodigy and lower decks were much better shows than the 3 though. too bad t hey got cancelled too fast.
SNW is decent. S2 E2 is an especially strong episode.
Nope.
I tried a few episodes because someone said they’d done a great space battle. The battle was 8/10, but every thing else was just dumb.
I found SNW to be a fresh breath of air after the garbage that Disco was. Sure, some filler episodes were weird, but at least I got a chuckle out of the Klingons rapping.
The problem with the K (for Klingon, of course) Pop scene is that the song didn’t last long enough.
Shit, you’re right! I had more of a Hiphop vibe in my memory. I love how the Klingon is so annoyed that he can’t prevent the singing. Peak comedy.
Here are two shows worth watching.
“Utopia” a group of comic book fans discover that their favorite read is a secret message from an escapee from a sinister organization.
“The Prisoner” The grandfather of all paranoid fantasy shows. An unnamed civil servant resigns and is kidnapped. He’s taken to The Village, where he’s told he is Number 6…
Thank you for the recommendations!
In case anyone wants to watch those, too, they’re “Utopia (2013)” and “The Prisoner (1967)”. There are quite a few series and movies with those names.
also make sure to watch the UK version of Utopia, not the very very bad US remake
silly me
If he’s the one behind “Strange New Worlds” I have to agree. Watched about three episodes and gave up.
Team lands on a strange object with the power to move a planet. “Hey, let me grab this thing!”
SNW was just too much like the other 2. had a big bad romulans at the end of season 1, but they dint do anything with them the next season, just completely disappeared.
What I’d like to see is a complete reboot. No humanoid aliens with five fingers; only nightmare creatures. Erase all prior canon. Start with an Earth based starship with a crew of five hundred humans. And get some real scientists to come up with plots.
Hm and here I thought new trek was bad because of weak and lazy story writing, including blatant inconsistencies with old trek and ‘burning’ the original cannon in order to avoid being accountable to it. 🤔
“And look what happened to Lol. She fucking died!”
I feel pretty much the same about anyone who complains about something being “woke”, no matter the topic - if perceiving and objecting to harms against and struggles of others not like yourself offends you, if seeing others actively try to work in support of those others is something you just can’t stomach, then you aren’t someone whose opinion I care about.
Plus the folks making those complaints can rarely define what woke is, or struggle to without using language that will immediately “out” their actual objections.
If anyone ever uses the word woke you can automatically assume they’re a moron who only gets outraged at what fox news tells them to be outraged at.
Or we used it ironically.
We should only watch the real old trek.
I mean, it was one of the first shows ever to:
- have a woman in a command position,
- depict a black person in a non-servile role,
- show Russians and Americans working as a team during the Cold War, and
- have an Asian character portrayed by an actual Asian actor,
but it wasn’t woke!
MLK Jr himself called Nichelle Nichols to encourage her to play Uhura. First interracial kiss on scripted television. She worked with NASA after Trek to encourage and recruit black and female astronauts.
First interracial kiss on scripted television.
That’s a common myth. There were several others before, some of which also had Shatner as one half of the kissing pair, believe it or not. Trek’s was definitely more high-profile, though, and with several of the others it may have been hard to notice with that particular combination with the quality of televisions at the time; European man with Asian woman probably wasn’t noticeable on a tiny '50s black and white TV.
Which sounds wholesome (and I don’t say it’s not at all) until you realize Nichols wanted to do something else, I think it was musicals, and King convinced her by saying “we need you to have representation. When you’re gone, anyone can take that position, even an alien” and so she stayed instead of self realization.
Certainly, worse things happened to her in her life.
Have a Japanese character about 20 years after ww2.
Have a Russian character during the Cold War.
but it wasn’t woke!
If it wasn’t for Kirk banging his way around the galaxy, it would have been.
Nothing compared to Riker.
It’s all Old Trek that came before the J.J. Abrams movie reboot.
but it wasn’t woke!
Define woke then, please.
Define woke then, please.
do you kids today really need /s behind every s?
You have no idea how many wild claims my autistic ass has seen that were absolutely serious.
It is because sarcasm needs tone. Which you do not have in text. As there is a person for every possible opinion out there and they have become more vocal in the internet i personally am annoyed by the motion that we are supposed to spot sarcasm. We all should just put that ugly s behind it, it is not that hard.
I guess i should have replied to the comment before you btw.
It is because sarcasm needs tone.
not necessarily. you need context and it comes from other places than just tone of voice.
if someone just drops “of course star trek is woke” in the middle of written text in random place, it can be harder to decipher the intent than it would be in voice. but the original commenter did quite a good job to guide reader to understand their position on the topic. combined with what community we are in it is a no-brainer.
yeah, sometimes there are stupid people on the internet, but sometimes a joke is just a joke. in the old days when internet sounded like a tortured robot, people used to say “be conservative in what you send out and liberal in what you receive”. times have indeed changed, but the rule still can come handy sometimes.
It is because sarcasm needs tone. Which you do not have in text.
“Frodo didn’t offer her any tea”
“And the more they drank, the more sober they were becoming”
Just off the top of my head.
So you disagree that in many online conversations sarcasm is confused for serious statements and vise versa?
No, that’s not what I said. Just that to make clearly distinguishable and good sarcasm you don’t need “/s”. Most people can’t, of course.
were they, or did you just assume so?
Do you really want to say they weren’t? Do you really want to deny my experiences?
Edit: don’t bother answering, I’m blocking you. I don’t like people referring to middle aged people as ‘kids’ and I don’t like people doubting others’ experiences without any knowledge about said experiences.
Do you really want to deny my experiences?
i do. you just did not recognize pretty clear sarcasm, it is documented in writing above. it is unlikely that it was only time in your life it happened. so yeah, some of these experiences in your past were also cases where you did misread the situation.
your badly acted offense does not change anything about that.
All those were token characters regularly repeating stereotypes about said groups, but OK.
Showing people from different sides of the curtain working together in future was kinda normal for science fiction.
The whole PR representation of the Cold War was like “friendly competition” or “hostile agreement” or a schism of the same religion. A good faith disagreement. USSR in some sense pretended to be like USA, but a better one, to bring the next stage of humanity’s development. You know all those failed\cancelled continuations, Half-Life 3, KotOR 3, Perl 6, FreeBSD 5 (ok, that transpired and didn’t kill FreeBSD completely, but), Gnome 3, KDE 4, Star Wars after 2005 and till being bought by Disney. Or ambitious alternative projects that went nowhere.
At the same time there were various levels of propaganda on either side, at the bottom for one it was the free world about to nuke dem damn commies, for the other it was the civilized peaceful humanity about to squash decadent anglosaxon zionists. But note how both variants imply there is good in the other side, just suppressed because they are possessed by evil.
So - not so strange. People perceive that friendliness as something new and the current hostility as something old, sometimes that’s not true. In some sense our time is more chauvinist than 60s and 70s, not less.
Yeah, anyone who complains that Trek is suddenly all woke and political now never watched any classic Star Trek or hasn’t been paying attention back then.
I’ve watched all of Star Trek on the big screens and the small ones at least once - including Section 31 - and it’s as political as it has ever been. And there has always been brilliance and absolute dogshit. Those who say NuTrek is all shite don’t know what they’re talking about.
they called STARGATE WOKE too, of all the scifi shows, they try to call a show that did use as much accuracy as possible to the USAF in the early years. additionally this was also discussed on one of cringey ml, hexbear posts for some reason, they are framing it as WOKE. they think its increasing propaganda because its based on USAF/CANADA/russian(to an extent).
Nice username btw.
Thanks.
I agree “old” Trek was woke too. It just blended in better imo. (Especially with Disco, it felt like there was a metaphorical spotlight on the “woke”.)
old trek had more subtlty, nutrek was too forced and out in the open to the point, it was distracting from the series plots. and std and picard were not very good shows. SNW need better actors/acting though, although they have much better arcs than the last 2.
TNG is “Old Trek” now. Thanks for ruining my day at 6:49am.
I’ll fucking say. I had to re-read the thing three times to figure out what the hell they were talking about, saying “Old Trek” over a shot of TNG.
nutrek is consideredin jj-abrams-present.
old trek before “enterprise” the series.
Everything before the 2009 movie reboot is old trek, including Enterprise despite it’s last episode airing only four years before JJ Abrams’ movies were released.
JJ Abrams’ movies were released.
Ha ha what are you talking about that’s not a thing that ever happened ha ha ha
Wdym? Star Trek 2009 was an okay movie and Beyond was actually fine. Also I can absolutely recommend Strange New World and Prodigy. Lower Decks can also be fun if you’re into fan service.
That’s selling Lower Decks a bit short. Yes, it has a big focus on comedy, but it has some genuinely great pathos that’s up there with the best of Trek.
“In the past, Klingons believed humans to be weak and easily defeated. But your species has proved its toDuj. Sito was a warrior. You do not honor her.”
“You didn’t know her!”
“Do you follow every order from your commanders?”
“No!”
“Sito made her choice. You want to solve puzzles and mysteries? Your friend gave her life to protect that. [scoffs] She would not approve of your actions.”
I wish I could like DIS, but every season I’ve been disappointed in the plot points and character writing. It could’ve been so good
Saru is the high point of that show. He’s the only character I was able to like unconditionally. He should have remained captain!
it was michelle yeoh, she was stealing too much of the other actors spotlight(they dont seem like they could act) and she had to leave the show. saru was a close second though. it was wierd how they forced michael, yes its name of the woman that the showrunner forced into the show.
Let’s be happy then that there’s more new trek than just disco.
Honestly, it was long before that when I tuned out zombie Star Trek forever.
No shit. I was reading as I was scrolling and I read “Old Trek” and saw Data and it didn’t make sense. It’s literally called “The Next Generation” because it was new after TOS.
I’m still irritated about that scene on behalf of Nimoy. Shatner should have been told to stuff his ego up his ass.
What went wrong with that scene?
The kiss between Kirk and Uhurah was supposed to be between Uhurah and Spock. Shatner threw a fit and got the script changed. He essentially stole Spock’s girlfriend because he wanted all the romance scenes.
No. In this case, Shatner knew the kiss was going to be historic and therefore wanted to be the one to go down in history for the kiss.
That said, Shatner did what he could to keep the scene from getting cut.
“Spock’s girlfriend?” That’s not TOS canon, in any way.
Correct, because Shatner threw a fit.
What happened?
The kiss between Kirk and Uhurah was supposed to be between Uhurah and Spock. Shatner threw a fit and got the script changed. He essentially stole Spock’s girlfriend because he wanted all the romance scenes.
Shatner certainly caused problems, but one scene, one kiss, out of the whole of ToS, hardly seems like it would have established a relationship with Uhurah. 🤷♂️
Yep. I just watched ‘Past Tense’ this week, where DS9 spends an entire two-parter advocating for the humane treatment of homeless and unemployed people through an economic policy of full employment. The characters succeed in bringing this about by staging an armed uprising largely led by a black man. It’s not only ‘woke’ but explicitly socialist!
Wait till you get to ‘Far Beyond the Stars’. Exploring racism from the pov of a black man in the 50s is different.
