Not directly, but the government supported getting there.
Last time, germany at least had the guts to spearhead the reich. This time they’re just a bootlicker, following their imperialist friends.
Germany is, after U.S, the most pro Israel country of all countries
I’d find Germany less responsible for WWIII if maybe they ya know didn’t support a genocidal terrorist ethnostate at the expense of domestically suppressing speech calling out that foreign policy, but I guess it just be like that sometimes
Except Germany keeps delivering weapons to Israel, gives them diplomatic and political coverage, and apparently even has planes in the air to support Israeli fighter jets in their attacks on Iran.
you think WW3 is starting because of Israel? Can I also get under the rock your been living under, must be nice there.
Israel is not only at the very center of the world (look at maps: it’s very much the geographic center. That’s why we call it middle east.)
it’s also reckless and like a dying star, a supernova. it blows up without regards to casualties. it is a very dangerous situation that we’re in indeed.
I dont see the potential for global conflict.
Israel and Iran have been trading blows for decades now. Some direct, many indirect. It’s a regional conflict, and regional it will remain.
Every now and then, Israel acts to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear power – and honestly, we’re all the better for it, the world does not need another set of religious crazies to have nukes.
(That being said, is Netanyahu a deplorable asshat? Absolutely yes – but for different reasons)
“have been trading blows for decades now. Some direct, many indirect. It’s a regional conflict, and regional it will remain.”
Lol, this sounds like a quote from someone in 1914 being catastrophicly wrong.
Every now and then, Israel acts to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear power – and honestly, we’re all the better for it, the world does not need another set of religious crazies to have nukes.
But apparently we do need religious crazies who already have nukes, are in the middle of a massive genocide, are attacking and occupying multiple other countries, and have ambitions of conquering the whole middle east, to act as World Police?
You’re literally endorsing war crimes.
Netanyahu a deplorable asshat
By “deplorable asshat”, you mean the fascist leader of a genocidal ethnostate currently launching multiple wars of aggression.
Every now and then, Israel acts to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear power – and honestly, we’re all the better for it, the world does not need another set of religious crazies to have nukes.
At this point, I would be fine with Iran having the bomb. I really don’t see any evidence that they would behave more recklessly with it than Israel does.
cue Oprah
YOU GET THE BOMB, YOU GET THE BOMB, YOU GET THE BOMB, EVERYONE GETS THE BOMB!
Them not behaving more recklessly than Israel is unfortunately not a high bar; which given their past actions I’m not sure they’d pass. I’d like to err on the side of caution here.
Iran has a right to self defense. Them getting the bomb is the side of caution here. Otherwise they will keep being attacked by Israel and it’s allies
Israel is a prominent member of the global western capitalistic hegemony, and they are escalating tensions with their genocide and attack on Iran. I wouldn’t say they’re the only ones responsible, but they do share a large portion of the blame.
Yeah sounds like you’re under deep rock for so long, you mistake the sky for an even larger rock.
They are complicit in supporting and arming Israel as well as supporting the genocide.
https://xcancel.com/josemendes2/status/1934190961719972153#m
Except we are once again fighting on the side of genocide.
Germans when they realise WW2 was caused by an man from Austria
Germans when they realise WW1 was caused by the assassination of the archduke of Austria and the subsequent declaration of war from Austria-Hungary on Serbia.
You could say Austria is responsible, but Hitler was in Germany, so WW2 is kinda our problem…
Clearly, this is all Austria’s fault. To punish Austria, Germany needs to invade and annex it…
Well, for now, I haven’t seen Austria do anything to start WWIII
Also, the State of Israel was created right after, and as a direct response, to WWII.
Germany is the second largest provider of weapons to Israel, and a huge longtime consumer of Russian gas, this is a tonedeaf as hell meme.
Lol 😂🤡
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Please dont mistake the German government for the entirety of Germany. I would say, that the support for Israel has massively decreased, due to their genocide. Our government however, does not fucking care.
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Hey, our government is not licking the US/pissrahell genocider boot any less is it?
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That DE40 has not been going up since the terrorist act by the US of blowing up NS2 and the ‘sanctions’ on themselves making them buy wildly expensive fracking gas from the US.
EU can’t compete and their economy is dying.
BASF, Thyssen-Krupp,etc… all closing down shop and reorganising.
A nice fertile ground for creating more AfD fascists, exactly the same as in the 1930’s.
And again the prospect of getting trashed on the eastern front just like their opa’s.Little bro wrote an essay in response to “lol”
Triggered much lmao
Wellllll… If it hadn’t been for Germany, Israel probably wouldn’t exist…
Jesus Christ lol
They’re technically correct, which is the best kind of correct 👍
And 9/11 caused Twilight.
And 50 shades of gray
Is that the bright side of life?
Which is a piece of shit, when you look at it 🤷
Nobody shrugs while being crucified like Eric Idle 😄
If you are arguing like that we can also find the blame for WW2 by whatever unified the German Reich in the first place. It’s a silly way to pass blame.
Well, maybe. But it was already being built for a good half-century at that time.
Also Nazis
Israel: we wouldn’t have started it without Germany’s security guarantees!
They also might not be a zionist county. Hard to say what things would look like now if dumbassery 1 & 2 hadn’t occurred.
They’re highly complicit in Israel’s actions.
Germany has great PR, it plays itself as such a progressive nation free of hate or want. It’s bullshit when you look beyond the surface
They also ditched nuclear energy and stayed over reliant on russian fossil fuel, funding the Russian war machine
The nuclear rods in Europe are mainly made with Uranium from Kazakhstan processed in Russia.
The German failure was not expanding renewables. Getting out of nuclear energy is geopolitically and financially sound.
Not when coal and gas fill the void. They can get fuel rods from France, Canada, China. Hell Germany could just refine their own, Niger is looking for trading partners.
France works together with Russia in the nuclear industry.
Also in 2023 none of the European supply came from China. Almost half came from Russia/Kazakhstan
The relationship with Niger is fragile, since Niger kicked out the remaining French troops from France post-colonial presence in West Africa. It seems Niger is instead looking towards Canada.
https://www.neimagazine.com/news/uranium-tensions-subside-in-niger/
And this only represents principal availability, without looking at the costs.
France was forcing Niger to give up its resources for a fraction of market value while keeping them from developing industry. Buy their product at a fair market value, or even better: follow China’s mutual development strategy and provide funds and experts to build a refinery.
China doesnt mine much uranium, but they do fabricated fuel pellets with ore from Kazakhstan.
These nuclear energy zealots are spilling over from r/europe with the same stupid arguments
Nuclear energy was the answer between like 1950 and 2010. But the fact that China isnt going all in on nuclear despite having optimal conditions; central planning allows them to predict maximum prices for materials and labor available 5-10 years in advance, the scale allows them to produce reactors more efficiently with better investment in tooling than any other country, and being the workshop of the world ensures higher demand than any other country. They are at <5% nuclear right now and expect <10% by 2035.
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Now we’re funding the US regime war machine after they blew up NS2 and ‘sanctions’.
Paying extortion prices for dirty US fracking gas that make companies uncompetitive and causing the economy to collapse.
The US leeches always profit from war, same as in WW2.
Always on the wrong side of history.
Not a coincidence that fascism and zionism are twins
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EDIT: Double fixed
Thank you lmao I was like why is there an American flag
Germany is Europe’s biggest supporter of Israel.
The biggest issue is that we, the EU, are on the side of Germany now. And their track record with world wars isn’t great.
To be fair to the Germans, I can understand how the Holocaust is integrated into them as a kind of “original sin”. What was done to the Jews under the Nazis was so unspeakable terrible, and German society as a whole has done an enormous job at ingraining in themselves that nothing of the sort should ever repeat itself.
The problem is that “nothing of the sort” has translated into “opposing Jews in any way”. It seems to me like Germany sees itself as bound to support Jews (and thereby the Jewish state Israel) no matter what in order to “atone for their sins”, and I can understand that. However, right now, Israel is suddenly the state committing the closest thing we’ve seen to the Holocaust since the actual Holocaust. It’s very hard for Germany to oppose Israel without tickling a part of their history that they’ve done a laudable job at condemning.
What Germany needs now, is to separate their history from their current politics. I understand that it’s difficult, and I don’t have an answer to how it should be done, but it needs to happen, lest the same crimes are committed again.
What was done to the Jews under the Nazis was so unspeakable terrible, and German society as a whole has done an enormous job at ingraining in themselves that nothing of the sort should ever repeat itself
Nazi Germany also murdered more than 10 million Russians, both civilians and soldiers, and had a literal genocidal plan against slavic peoples (Generalplan Ost), and yet they don’t support the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Almost as if the whole “holocaust shame” thing was a myth, and it was used to manufacture consent towards Israel’s genocide of Palestinians.
As mentioned in one of my other comments: Yes, the Holocaust targeted other groups than Jews (Slavs, Romani, Gays, etc.). However, in learning about the Holocaust, there is usually a strong focus on Jews. In short, most people learn a lot about how Jews were targeted, and a lot of memorials and media focus on Jewish prosecution by the nazis.
At the same time, Russia has been built up as an adversary since the beginning of the Cold War, and committed plenty of their own atrocities before, during, and after WWII. The same cannot be said about Romani, Gays, Jews, or other groups targeted during the Holocaust.
With all this in mind, it’s not very hard to understand why “Holocaust guilt” is centered on Jews more than other groups, and why Russians are largely exempt from the feeling altogether. I’m not saying that’s fair or right, I’m saying it’s very understandable.
On the other hand: I really don’t see any motive from Germanys side to support genocide on Palestinians. So my argument is essentially trying to understand why Germany would support Isreal despite <waves at Israel in general>. The only good explanation I’ve found is centred on “Holocaust guilt”, and the way it’s been portrayed and conveyed the past eighty years.
To be fair to the Germans, I can understand how the Holocaust is integrated into them as a kind of “original sin”. What was done to the Jews under the Nazis was so unspeakable terrible, and German society as a whole has done an enormous job at ingraining in themselves that nothing of the sort should ever repeat itself.
The problem with Germany is that they learned the wrong lesson out of WW2.
Instead of learning “genocide is bad”, it’s “Jews are always on the right side of history”. And that’s why Germany is completely uncritically supporting Israel with everything that it does.
Israel is suddenly the state committing the closest thing we’ve seen to the Holocaust since the actual Holocaust.
I don’t say this to excuse anything Israel is doing, but this is gross recency bias that is glossing over numerous genocides that have occurred since the Holocaust, including:
- 2020-2022: Tigray Genocide in Ethiopia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_in_Tigray (Est. 162,000 - 600,000 killed)
- 2003-2005: Darfur Genocide in Sudan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darfur_genocide (Est. 98.000 - 500,000 killed)
- 1996-1997: Hutu Genocide in Zaire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Hutus_during_the_First_Congo_War (Est. 200,000 - 233,000 killed)
- 1994: Tutsi Genocide in Rwanda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_genocide (Est. 491,000 - 800,000 killed)
- 1987-1989: Isaaq Genocide in Somolia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaaq_genocide (Est. 50,000 - 200,000 killed)
- 1986-1989: Genocide in Kurdistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anfal_campaign (Est. 50.000 - 182,000 killed)
- 1975-1979 Cambodian Genocide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide (Est. 1,386,734 - 3,000,000 killed)
- 1971-1979 Uganda Genocide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Republic_of_Uganda (Est. 100,000 - 500,000 killed)
- 1972 Ikiza Geneocide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikiza (Est. 80.000 - 300,000 killed)
- 1971 Bangladesh Genocide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_genocide (Est. 300,000 - 3,000,000 killed)
Not technically genocides, but also worth mentioning in the same vein:
- 1959-1961 Chinese Famine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine (Est. 15,000,000 - 55,000,000 killed)
- 1930-1953 Soviet Gulag: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag (Est. 1,500,000 - 1,700,000 killed)
So ya, other than those events, this is the closest thing to the Holocaust since the actual Holocaust.
It’s laudable of you to bring attention to these other atrocities. Without creating a “race to the bottom” regarding what was worse, I still want to point out that the horror of the Holocaust was not only in the number of killed.
I’m aware of a couple of the atrocities you mentioned, but as far as I’m aware, they don’t carry the clinical state-sponsored efficiency that is a hallmark of the Holocaust. When I compare Gaza today to the holocaust, that’s what I’m comparing, rather than the number of killed. It’s about the way Isreal has decided to wipe out the population of Gaza, and systematically does so completely unhindered.
To be clear, aside from the part I quoted, I agreed with everything else in your post and thought it was an interesting take, but again I have to take issue with this:
as far as I’m aware, they don’t carry the clinical state-sponsored efficiency that is a hallmark of the Holocaust.
I’m not going to analyze every single atrocity since 1945, but the Cambodian genocide was certainly state-sponsored, efficient, and horrific:
“20,000 people passed through the Security Prison 21, one of the 196 prisons the Khmer Rouge operated,[4][28] and only seven adults survived.[29]”
"The executed were buried in mass graves. In order to save ammunition, the executions were often carried out using poison or improvised weapons such as sharpened bamboo sticks, hammers, machetes and axes.[6] … In some cases the children and infants of adult victims were killed by having their heads bashed against the trunks of Chankiri trees, and then were thrown into the pits alongside their parents. The rationale was “to stop them growing up and taking revenge for their parents’ deaths.”
“People were imprisoned and tortured merely on suspicion of opposing the regime or because other prisoners gave their names under torture. Whole families (including women and children) ended up in prisons and were tortured because the Khmer Rouge feared that if they did not do this, their intended victims’ relatives would seek revenge. Pol Pot said, “if you want to kill the grass, you also have to kill the roots”.[169]”
"There are many accounts of torture in both the Security Prison 21 records and the documents of the trial; as told by the survivor Bou Meng in his book (written by Huy Vannak), tortures were so atrocious and heinous that the prisoners tried in every way to commit suicide, even using spoons, and their hands were constantly tied behind their back to prevent them from committing suicide "
“all medical experiments were systematically conducted without proper anesthetics.[173] A medic who worked inside S-21 said that a 17-year-old girl had her throat slit and her abdomen pierced before being beaten and put into water for an entire night. This procedure was repeated many times and carried out without anesthetics.[174] In a hospital of Kampong Cham province, child medics cut out the intestines of a living non-consenting person and joined their ends to study the healing process. The patient died after three days due to the “operation”.[173]”
“Twenty-six-year-old John D. Dewhirst, a British tourist, was one of the youngest foreigners to die in the prison.[17] He was sailing with his New Zealand companion, Kerry Hamill, and their Canadian friend Stuart Glass when their boat drifted into Cambodian territory and was intercepted by Khmer patrol boats on August 13, 1978. Glass was killed during the arrest, while Dewhirst and Hamill were captured, blindfolded, and taken to shore. Both were executed after having been tortured for several months at Tuol Sleng. Witnesses reported that a foreigner was burned alive; initially, it was suggested that this might have been John Dewhirst, but a survivor would later identify Kerry Hamill as the victim of this particular act of brutality.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide
Germany doesnt care about Jews. The moment Jews are not fitting the box Germany designed for them by not blindly supporting Israel, those Jews are facing the same repressions like anyone else who challenges Germanies blind support for Israel.
German politics, media and parts of civil society think that blind support of Israel is serving certain interests of Germany and they do it purely for these reasons. In particular we see it being used to justify racist discrimination against Arabs and other “brown” people and to crack down with increasing authoritarianism on leftist and ecological political positions.
Like Israeli society they have deluded themselves into thinking that they know better than everyone else in the world what is right and wrong and fail to see, how this actually harms Germany tremendously.
They could’ve gone down the Humanist route of “Never again shall this be allowed to happen to anyone”, making it about the victims and their human suffering rather than their race, but instead they chose to make it about Race, keeping the way of seeing other human beings from before, just with different untermenschen and ubermenschen.
The visual artifacts of NAZIsm might have been forbidden, but the whole judging and treating people differently depending on their race is a strong as ever.
Their continued support for Israel whilst they’re trying to commit a new Holocaust, shows that Racism as a way of viewing and relating to others in Germany is as strong today as it was in the 1930s.
The problem is that Germans now just look generally pro-genocidal.
This is a classic problem of going into one ditch, then oversteering and hitting the opposite ditch.
Germany has worked so hard on “The Holocaust was terrible, we will forever support the Jews to make up for it” that they’re now supporting a genocidal Jewish state.
My point is that I understand why this is hard for them. For them to oppose Israel invokes some associations that they really want to keep far away. However, now, supporting Israel invokes the same associations. This puts them in a kind of catch-22 situation, where no matter what they do, they’re invoking associations to the Nazis.
To be clear: I think the only right thing to do now is to oppose Israel. I just understand why that is exceptionally hard for Germany.
Well put! It’s a shame that they put all focus on supporting their primary victim and so little on never again allowing their actions. Their word would weigh heavy thou if they ever stepped on that land mine.
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You’re wilfully ignoring the historical context that makes it hard for Germany to oppose Israel. By doing so, you’re not helping anyone.
If that were the reason, Germany would also have trouble opposing Russia. Yet they don’t.
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Don’t you see that if you want to effect change, it helps to understand why Germany is doing what they’re doing now?
I have no idea what brings the ICC into this, I’m not aware of cases against any other country than Isreal here.
By the way, how does trying to understand why people are doing what they do make me an asshole? I’m trying to be civil here, and I think you’re being very impolite.
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The Nazis were just as brutal to Russians as they were to Jews, and yet modern Germany has no trouble understanding it shouldn’t support Russia today. The “holocaust guilt” excuse for supporting Israel seems like an excuse
It’s absolutely true that the Holocaust hit several groups with the same brutality as the Jews (Slavs, Romani, Gays, etc.). However when the Holocaust is taught about, it’s usually with a strong focus on Jews and antisemitism. Additionally, Russia has been built up as an adversary throughout the past 50-70 years. With that in mind, I don’t see it as strange that the “Holocaust guilt” is centred around Jews, and that Germany finds it easier to oppose Russia than Isreal.
Maybe it’s time for a redemption arc.
