I guruan-fucking-tee there’s going to be a new character who’s basically just a transgender boogeyman
No, I bet the trans character will be more of a “look! are you happy now?” like with the game.
Naw, JK Rowling has actual creative input this time.
And it be the most male-looking figure they can fucking find
I’m probably gonna watch it because it’s interesting to see what they made of it, I’m gonna pirate it and seed it far and wide tho lol
Whether or not you should consume HP Lovecraft media despite the fact he was a racist is entirely up to you because he is long dead. He doesn’t make any money. He isn’t even racist any more. Because he’s dead.
I always say “If you’re going to be a shitshow of a human being but a talented artist, the least you can do is also be dead.”
See also: Phil Spector, Pablo Picasso.
HP Lovecraft was more a clinical xenophobe and expressed that in his writings. He was afraid of different races, but he was also deadly afraid of scientific advancement and even the color indigo. He also didn’t fund terrible politicians or get into feuds on twitter. You also don’t see terrible people on twitter using his writings to justify their beliefs.
JK Rowling is actively funding and bragging about making other people’s lives worse.
Yeah, I actually think Lovecraft was doing what was probably the healthiest thing available to him at the time with all his fucked up phobias by turning them into inspiration for spooky stories. He was creative and articulate enough that he could have been writing political screeds and trying to get others on board with driving out all the immigrants, but instead he wrote about crab monsters from space. Far from the worst possible outcome considering a lot of the other possibilities from the time.
HP Lovecraft is a national treasure.
His detractors are potatoes.
His writing can be good and he personally can be a piece of shit. One has nothing to do with the other. His detractors as it were virtually all hate that he was a racist POS.
Your opinion is shallow, conformist fluff.
There’s also something to say about someone that was a racist in his mind, but made some effort to move in a better direction and/or live in isolation, versus someone that’s actively moving toward ruining other people lives with the benefits they reap.
There is a novel called “The Art of Monsters” that came out in the wake of Harvey Weinstein (not that he’s an artist). It’s a good read.
If only everybody would conform to the consensus morality. We’d be living in caves, eating garbage and telling really stupid stories but at least we’d all be non-shitshow human beings.
I’m sure some is profiting from his estate, no?
His works are public domain. People are profiting who did their own work compiling or creating derivative works
Well his estate is pretty loose about enforcing copyright and don’t take in much per product. That’s why you see so much merch. Secondly they are not some racist dipshit.
Their right to anything is as fictional as any of his works
https://lovecraft.fandom.com/wiki/Copyright_status_of_works_by_H._P._Lovecraft
Plus, it was a shared mythos. He created the main core of it, but others contributed as well. So, figuring out copyrights would be difficult, since some stories reference other stories. Remember, they thought they were just writing some horror stories, but that they would never be something anyone other than other horror story enthusiasts would see.
IP was not a thing yet, and they were just writing for fun. A modern version would be the shared SCP universe.
Is his estate run by raging racists?
No
Hello, username cousin
Reminder: “separating the art from the artist” is an approach to engaging with an artwork, and is a separate question from whether or not you should engage with an artwork when doing so has real life consequences.
Whether or not you should consume HP Lovecraft media despite the fact he was a racist is entirely up to you because he is long dead. He doesn’t make any money. He isn’t even racist any more. Because he’s dead.
When you consider whether or not you consume Harry Potter media, you must consider that JK Rowling will make money and will donate that money to anti-trans groups. If you still go on to buy licensed merch, or pay a streaming service to watch it, you will literally be helping to propogate transphobia. Continue to enjoy anything you currently own if you want. That is where separating the art from the artist comes into it. But if you still actively promote the material online and thereby increase the demand for it; again, transphobia, arguably.
Only applies to artists who can no longer enjoy the spoils.
Can we pirate it. Or will that just make it more popular
Edit: or should we just boycott
I think its best to move on
Anyway, will most probably be shit. 99% of series these days are bad and just money grabs.
There are usually some good scenes or themes or characters that make some of the 99% worth a watch. The Netflix Avatar series was shit that didn’t understand the tone of the original, except for the scenes added for Lu-Ten’s Funeral and the 41st Division. These alone added enough for me to begrudgingly accept the existence of the live-action series. There are usually some things like that in most of the new ones I’ve seen.
Pirating it wouldn’t make it more popular if you kept it to yourself, but talking about it after you watched it probably would.
I have to say, this is just such an in-the-weeds moral stance that it crosses the boundary of reasonableness. Honestly, it’s this sort of thing that drove me away from left wing styles of thinking a while ago.
The impact you make on the world in any of your possible actions with regard to Harry Potter is miniscule. Like, truly, utterly insignificant. Are you going to organize an anti-potter boycott? Participate in a protest? Harass the actors in an online trolling movement? Throw eggs at JK Rawling’s house? Great! Go do all those things! Actively participate in changing the world for the better! These actions might actually lead to real change.
But denying yourself pleasures in the name of moral purity accomplishes nothing. If all you do is sit at home and think to yourself “I wanna watch the new Harry Potter thing, but I can’t, because then I’m a bad person.” (or in this case, "I wanna talk to my friends about the new Harry Potter thing I pirated, but I can’t, because then I’m a bad person) then you are accomplishing literally nothing except making yourself miserable. Again, if you are going to actually do something, then go do it! But if you don’t have the time or energy or interest or social battery to actually do something, then shaming yourself or others into not doing things is actively counterproductive. Go take a road trip without calculating if the pleasure you will derive is worth the carbon footprint! Eat an ice cream cone without feeling bad about the the suffering of the factory farmed cow it came from! Get one of those good-paying jobs in oil and gas or defence and make some goddamned money! You are simply not important enough for any of these actions to have any actual real-world impact. The only thing that happens is that you convince yourself that if you ever enjoy anything, then you are a bad person. You train yourself to constantly be looking for the ways in which life’s simple pleasures are destroying the world, so you can feel bad about them.
Just stop it. Be happy. Do whatever you need to do to chill out and enjoy your life and gain some sense of contentedness and security. And then go out and make the world a better place by actually doing something. Hyper-anxious, shame-ridden, depressed know-it-alls rarely create effective social change because no one wants to hang out with them. No one see them and thinks “yeah, that’s what I want my life to look like.”
In order to lead by example you have to show a path to a better world. Not a cell.
Don’t confuse that mentality for left-wing thinking. It is an entirely liberal, center-right reactionary mentality to be overly concerned about optics and moral purity.
What you have said is actual left-wing thinking. You have essentially described the point of “no ethical consumption under capitalism”. That if people really care about this, then they need to actually do something about it instead of just shaming others for indulging on simple creature comforts.
Guarantee that the people bitching about others enjoying HP media also go home to suck down a bottle of Coke which directly funds militant anti-labor hit squads in South America to prevent their bottling plants from unionizing. Or maybe they are a Pepsi person, where their purchase has helped fund the exploitation of prisoners who are forced for pennies an hour to make their cans. Or any other of the myriad of things under our current economic structure that funnels wealth into the hands of the elite who seek to oppress the working class.
You are hardly the arbiter of what is left wing thinking. Fuck ethics im going to concern myself with my own needs is apolitical. Its neither Left nor right.
I mean, you’re more than welcome to stay politically ignorant. I’m not an arbiter, but I am just describing facts.
Also, what they said was absolutely not 'fuck ethics I’m going to concern myself with my own needs"
Nice bad faith misrepresentation of what they said.
Also most people’s actions are on the overall ALL small. Most people make no big ripples. Telling them to either change the world or do nothing is telling them to do nothing.
Ethics are a habit if you can’t give up a tv show what can you do exactly
Ethics isn’t just big things it’s little things as well. I don’t matter I shouldn’t need to do anything just isn’t Left or right wing it is an apolitical thought. Claiming that because you hold yourself to be left-wing and you thought it and thus it is left wing thinking is just flat out wrong. Please explain exactly how Im wrong. Explain how your position is left wing
Just pirate it and don’t speak about it. Win win. No monkey for the bigot and you get your pleasure.
Congratulations. You successfully managed to both not engage with my point in any meaningful way, and also provided a solution I already deflated in the comment you are responding to.
You didn’t successfully deflate it
The potential pleasure is in speaking about it.
Instead of not enjoying something why not enjoy something else there is finite time and far more to enjoy than you shall ever find time.
What of value would be lost?
If being a POS takes half of your income potential away people will be less likely to behave so and others will think it less acceptable.
Dismissing the aggregate effect of small effects is dismissing most actual effects. Its ahistorical.
Don’t deprive yourself of happiness to spite her. That being said the books have several reasons to not read them on their own merits. Don’t forget “dobby is weird for not wanting to be a slave” is an actual plot point in the books. Not to mention the goblins. If you want to revisit a beloved fantasy series, give LOTR another read/watch.
Count the number of times female characters are described as “shrill” or “screeching” etc. There’s a weird misogyny and dedication to patriarchy that just oozes out of the books.
Wheel of Time!
And Hobbit!
I was actually planning on qatching Star Wars, we have a long weekend, but LOTR is also a great idea. Thanks.
It’s up to society if we should separate a work from its artist. We’ve collectively agreed that this work shouldn’t survive the century. Not only that, you can’t separate an artist from their work when they’re literally tangled in it and controlling it
JK Rowling is rich enough to fund anti trans groups for decades without any input from us. Boycotting HP has no effect on trans rights.
☠️
But if you still actively promote the material online and thereby increase the demand for it; again, transphobia, arguably.
I agree with everything you wrote up to this point. I’m not really a Harry Potter fan and I certainly don’t think much of J.K. Rowling since she revealed her true nature but this last bit is a very slippery slope.
You know the slippery slope fallacy right?
I had not seen that before but I’m not sure it applies. Perhaps the wording was poor to indicate my intent but it was not my intention to indicate “a chain reaction resulting in an undesirable end or ends” as that article says.
I was trying to communicate that making a broad statement, like OP did, that promoting Harry Potter online indicates transphobia or transphobic behavior by itself ignores both intent and context, which I think matters.
They’re not saying it’s transphobic, but it is promoting transphobia. Which isn’t really any better in my books.
it ispromoting transphobia
It literally is not, not without context and intent.
Somebody going online and posting, “I grew up with Harry Potter and loved it and I’m interested to see the new [whatever]” is not equivalent to promoting transphobia.
You cannot make a black and white determination like that without context and intent. Without those you’re just making assumptions.
“I grew up with Harry Potter and loved it and I’m interested to see the new [whatever]” is not equivalent to promoting transphobia.
It is equivalent, because in this case, it is literally promoting transphobia. One of the worlds leading transphobes will directly benefit from the profits this show makes, and will directly turn those profits against dismantling the rights of trans folk.
This isn’t an analogy, it’s not dramatic license, or over exaggeration.
You cannot make a black and white determination like that without context and intent.
If you know she will hurt trans people with the money she makes, and you do things that continue to make her money (which includes just advocating for continued consumption of her work), it is black and white, and the context and intent are quite visible.
By itself, it doesn’t mean someone is transphobic. But it does mean that at the very least, personal nostalgia is more important to that person than the harm their actions cause. And that is plenty of intent and context.
It is equivalent, because in this case, it is literally promoting transphobia. One of the worlds leading transphobes will directly benefit from the profits this show makes, and will directly turn those profits against dismantling the rights of trans folk.
adverb: literally in a literal manner or sense; exactly.
It literallyis not. I posted the definition in case you needed it. Purchasing or consuming a product is not exactly the same as promoting transphobia.
By your logic every person in the United States who pays any kind of taxes that go to the federal government is promoting transphobia. If you’ve ever shopped at a store that employs a transphobe, you’re promoting transphobia. If you’ve ever watched a movie or tv show that has a transphobic actor in it, you’re promoting transphobia. Doesn’t matter if you know it because, as you put it, they directly benefit from your money.
If you know she will hurt trans people with the money she makes, and you do things that continue to make her money (which includes just advocating for continued consumption of her work), it is black and white, and the context and intent are quite visible.
The only part of this that’s true is “advocating for continued consumption of her work” and even that’s a stretch because a person could have any number of reasons. Also, simply expressing interest in something is not advocating for it, it’s sharing an opinion or preference.
By itself, it doesn’t mean someone is transphobic. But it does mean that at the very least, personal nostalgia is more important to that person than the harm their actions cause. And that is plenty of intent and context.
It doesn’t mean that, that’s what you’re assuming because that’s what it means to you.
You do not make the rules for other people.
I am so tired of this “fall in line or else” attitude everyone seems to have.
You want to preface it with “in my opinion” you go right ahead and we’ll have to agree to disagree but it is by definition and factually not literally promoting transphobia.
Except for the fact that the money spent on the movie directly funds transphobia via JK Rowling…
You get she’s literally doing that right?
No, it indirectly funds her through a convoluted system of ownership and IP law.
The problem isn’t people consuming media. The problem is the system that funnels wealth into the pockets of bigots.
You get that the only person who controls what JK Rowling does is her, right?
You don’t have to like that someone may choose to continue to consume Harry Potter but trying to claim they are directly promoting transphobia unless the context and/or the intent is there.
Someone with a track record of transphobic behavior, sure. Someone who is posting about it in spaces intended for trans people, especially if that space has already clearly communicated their stance on it, maybe.
Context and intent matter.
The online portion of the community that is complaining about all this may be valid, but it’s still a small portion of the actual public. Regardless of all the negative press, if this show is good, it’s going to be a commercial hit.
Fuck the whole HP franchise.
It was always shitty writing and the plot was garbage. The whole story was a thinly veiled glorification of British exceptionalism.
The only saving grace of that stinking turd of a franchise is that, in the '90s, it seemed like a good way to get kids to read.
The kind of hilarious part is there was right wing pushback in the southern US when they came out because it was “teaching kids witchcraft.” Which is so fucking funny to me now. It’s just so plainly obvious that they were literally judging a book by it’s cover. I read the first two books as a young adult because of the right wing pushback and even the 2nd book was an absolute slog. To my dismay I didn’t learn any witchcraft along the way either.
On the other hand, my youngest brother absolutely loved those books. I remember sneaking him one of the new ones when we were staying with our Southern Baptist grandparents for the summer. They absolutely were his first books that he really read independently. He was quite bitter when JKR decided to be all anti-trans and shitty. If you even bring it up now it sends him into a tirade about how shitty she is.
Thank you for speaking some sense. I never had any interest in anything HP ever since the beginning, long before JK revealed herself to be a piece of shit.
My cousin dragged me to one of the films once (IDK which one but it was the one where the Gollum ripoff dies). It was so boring that I fell asleep in the theater. Never understood why people find this garbage entertaining.
In addition to my loathing of the author, I have to say I am also really bothered how the books normalize slavery, glorify blood purity and elite privilege, treat systemic child abuse as comic relief, use goblins as thinly veiled anti-Semitic caricatures, reduce fat characters to jokes, sideline women or box them into tired tropes, justify authoritarianism with a shrug, romanticize magical servitude, paint non-human creatures as inherently dangerous, and act like destiny is a substitute for character development — all while the wizarding world runs on a caste system and no one ever questions it.
So I will be passing on this series, personally.
Everyone who praised blood purity was a villain and the entire last half of the series was about how the real hero was a dude with mixed blood. What are you smoking bruh?
Yea, a lot of people seem to be blinded by their hate of JK they have completely forgotten how the books portrayed many of the themes.
Like, they weren’t incredibly nuanced depictions; it is literally a children’s/young adult series. They aren’t exactly known for their depth. Yet, they are still good starting points for children to begin thinking about larger concepts and themes, even with their imperfections.
None of that matters, as it’s a book… The problem is her as a person.
You could apply the same logic to most fantasy and claim they are racist and pro-monarchy. Harry Potter isn’t really as bad as you make it sound.
sideline women or box them into tired tropes
Which makes it mind bogglingly insane how many claimed “feminists” support her because of her stance on trans people.
Hermoine and Ron ending up together is shit. He treats her like garbage throughout the series.
Bellatrix is presented as this fucked up “Daddy’s Little Monster” to Voldemorts Joker.
All of the “good” women are passive little teachers and moms.
What happens to Tonks is especially gross as shit. You have a GNC women. Goes by a shorten, masc-ish name. Short hair, colors, dresses ambiguously.
Then she gets married off to the other queer coded character. (Werewolf = HIV, I’m pretty sure she straight up said that at one point.) He calls her her extremely feminine birth name, and iirc the text even mentions that she is vaguely uncomfortable with that? Then gets knocked up and killed off. She gets to die a “proper woman.”
TERFs say “trans men shouldn’t transition! Just be a non confoming woman!” But it’s a fucking front. They are a conservatives in disguise. They don’t want GNC people to exist, just like they don’t want trans people to exist. “Just be non-binary! But also, shave your legs and wear makeup and make sure to present in a feminine way.”
If I was a billionaire feminist who could buy courts, I could think of several better priorities.
If I were a billionaire, the amount of low-to-no cost housing, green energy, and fiber internet I would build would be off the charts. And with Elon Musk money, I’m fairly certain I could ensure that NO ONE in the US would ever have to worry about where their next meal would come from. Certainly not schoolchildren. Also, I would commission a third season of the classic 1999 anime Big O, with the original writers and showrunner.
Holy fuck someone other than me mentioning the GOAT that is the Big O
Unfortunately if you were a billionaire you’d be a selfish sociopath so wouldn’t think of any of these things.
Correct me if I’m wrong - I’m not American, so I wouldn’t see this regularly - but I swear I heard about a lotto jackpot or two that hit the billions of dollars (maybe it was close, if wasn’t that much). So it’s possible (rare as all fuck, but possible on occasion) to get to that - or close to it - without building it on the backs of the working class. If that happened to DominusOfMegadeus then that would be awesome! All for it. It’s unfortunately more likely that you’re crushing people’s spines as you climb the mountain of them to reach that amount though. Blargh…
Lotteries are a tax on poor people.
They are also a “bread and circuses” type thing.
Plus basically all the winners end off worse than before/dead
Projection much?
Huh? My point was that there’s a reason we never get good billionaires.
It was phrased as an accusation
It actually wasn’t.
She did give away a lot of money to charity. About 16% of her wealth when she became a billionaire iirc. Gave to help children in poverty and to fight the disease MS.
I don’t know much about her stance on trans people other than she seems to believe that there is a difference between trans and biological women. Feel free to drop a good link where I can educate myself.
Anyway, reading comments here make it sound like she’s a modern day Hitler that’s never done anything good in her life, and that sounds both unfair and untrue.
At the risk of godwinning, imma gonna quote my much beloved grandfather:
“And hitler was kind to his dogs”
Donating a crapload to charities she personally gives a shit about doesn’t magically balance out the horrendous transphobic bigotry she is directly funding.
I have no idea what book series you read (or if you’ve read it at all) but you are…very off on this take.
Don’t get me wrong, JK Rowling is a total piece of shit, but the books themselves are distinctly anti classism, “blood purity,” slavery, misogyny, and a whole host of other things you listed.
Are they without any flaw? Certainly not. Is it okay if people boycott the media because of Rowling’s ongoing transphobia? Absolutely. But most of what you’ve listed about the book series is blatantly untrue…
Doesn’t HP end up a literal magic cop at the end of the series? The whole caste system is also upheld throughout, at no point is revealing the wizarding world to muggles even considered an option despite the fact that little kids are dying from cancer all over Britain/the world that could be magically healed in an afternoon. The whole SPEW thing is just profoundly racist and always has been. “Cho Chang” – nuff said. The whole point of Hogwarts is that it’s a boarding school, which proudly inherits all its real-world British characteristics which are intrinsically linked to the more problematic parts of the British class system.
Rowling has always been a bigot and I will die on this hill. Any progressive messaging that people read into harry potter is at best performative (for instance yes she explicitly denounces “blood purity” pretty early on, but that’s super performative considering her entire worldbuilding is built on the premise that some people are just inherently magical and others are inherently not invited to the party. “Blood purity contests” are only bad when wizards to it to other wizards.).
I don’t think she’s a good enough writer to have done most of the racist/classist/misogynist messaging intentionally, but nonetheless her reactionary poorly thought-out world view transpires through every bit of her writing.
EDIT: Trying to expand on my own thoughts here. I’ve always despised HP as a franchise so to try to be fair to HP let’s contrast and compare with the piece of shit author who did make a book I like, Ender’s Game. I pirated it a couple years back, and I won’t pretend it’s not obvious at times that he’s a homophobe and a religious nutcase with some obvious cognitive dissonance with some of his (at least at the time) progressive views. I guess the good thing about that particular IP is that there’s no new stuff coming out besides one awful movie, so everyone can agree Orson Scott Card can get fucked and move on with their lives. But it’s important to acknowledge that his religious zealousness did impact his writing and to take a step back even if we decide to still appreciate his work.
The problem is that HP fans are in a much tougher situation because the writing just isn’t good so if you drop the flimsy pretense that 2000s Rowling was a champion of liberal ideals, then you really don’t have much left besides a profoundly flawed worldbuilding with shitty characters who only work to uphold the wizarding status quo. Yeah I’d get pretty mad too if I had spend my teenage years obsessing over that heap of trash.I agree she is anti classism, and anti “blood purity,” but there is no redemption for the enslaved elves. Hermione written as irritating and the strong women are housewives and spinsters.
She is fine with different people moving to her country as long as they assimilate, so muggleborns and half-bloods can be wizzies too as long as they wear robes and curse in Merlin’s name. She hates multiculturalism, which is why the elves stay enslaved. They’re irreconcilably different. Sort of like transfolk. We’re different, in a way that can’t just be assimilated away.
Or… something like that. Her politics are kind of incoherent.
Her writing shows that her thinking is not logical. She was pro-remain usually means pro multicultural, but not in her case.
I know no details about the abuse she suffered, but she certainly distrusts men. I suspect she views all trans people as men in wigs trying to take advantage of women.
She doesn’t back down (see Stephen Fry “pocketed it” story) so every faux pas gets double downed upon and becomes a belief, no matter how illogical.
But all this comes after the books. I see the pro slavery, anti intellectualism and distinct lack of strong females in the books, but no anti trans or racism. She clumsily including non white characters which seems like they are editor suggested afterthought rather than a negative bias.
Don’t forget the Goblins! Although I don’t know if that was from her or from Universal Studios.
In the book goblins are “A short and stocky humanoid with black eyes, a domed head and long fingers.” but the movies add hooked noses and a Star of David mosaic on the bank floor.
She had a lot of power in the movie (all UK cast, filmed in UK) so she could have vetoed the depiction if she wanted.
I think people like to take all the poorly written parts of HP and conflate them with bigotry. Its possible, but jk Rowling is just a shitty writer who does not plan ahead at all. I still think fans wrote the last three books via posting theories on HP forums.
She had a spreadsheet outlining the plot and character beats for the last books by the time the first film was made.
She’s just not a great writer.
I’d have to see the spreadsheet before I’d give her any credit for having one. The story gets w9rse and worse as it goes, I can’t imagine she planned that. The ending is absurd and I haven’t heard anyone defend it successfully.
That is called a timeline, which most great authors do. It is character and story path development 101.
I will definitely concede that her writing is amateurish and poorly conceived at best, and it’s entirely possible some of these issues are due to that. However since all of it came out of her brain, and these themes are how she thinks about the world, it might be trickier than that to separate the two so neatly.
Agree with you. You could take most fantasy stories ever written and apply the same “injustices” wrongly so. I call that reaching.
this what most of the people are elucidating her meaning of her books, its her subtle way to express her transphobia, anti-semititism, etc.
Ok fair, and kind of obvious now that I think about it. But a lot of people seem to also be arguing that the books can stand alone and be enjoyed separate from the author’s discriminatory beliefs. And if that is the case, then let’s take the books separately, and examine what they really are presenting to the audience that loves them so much. Even forgetting about Rowling, can these people really say they feel it’s totally ok to enjoy a classicist story about discrimination, slavery, and child abuse, etc.? And that they should be allowed to enjoy such a story without anyone casting aspersions against them?
I’ll agree to examine the books separate from the author the day buying them doesn’t mean giving her money to finance her backwards agenda. Until then, they are 100% linked.
Yeah I feel the same. I would love to get a really good and nostalgic tv series out of this, the movies were a big thing in my youth and I liked them, and while I can now see it and some of its themes and portrayals in a very different light even ignoring Rowling themself, I would argue the problematic stuff are in line with other cliche fantasy that have very similar problems. There seems to be a baseline of problematic stuff pretty much everything includes, likely there from naivety or ignorance rather than intentional malice, but there nevertheless. I can live with that small baseline amount as long as it’s clearly sensible, in that I can understand it’s probably not intended to do harm, and ultimately does not do much of it even unintentionally. And I can’t say I haven’t yearned a little bit to play the rpg situated in the world either.
BUT, and this is important to me, I can’t, unless Rowlings no longer benefits from them. The IP, if bought by HBO for example, leaving no royalties to the transphobic bigot, I could see myself even enjoying again. But the cutoff would have to be complete. Even if they managed to cut off Rowlings just for this show, they would still benefit from it in merchandise and the IP recognition in general, so I could not allow myself to enjoy the show even if it did not directly benefit the bigot.
But that’s not very likely, is it, to entirely cut them off? If anyone using the IP truly want to get the full potential, they should find a way to entice the bigot to sell off any and all rights and benefits regarding them and the franchise. But that’s not going to happen, because the hateful bigot needs the money to wage war against minorities.
It’s expensive to be hateful and oppressing. You need a money making machine to support such a campaign. And the bigot knows that.
The sad thing is, this will likely be a hit still. Most people don’t seem to care, and I guess that’s valid. But it’s harmful. Just like the game. People find ways to justify their consumption even if they are aware and agree with the problems.
Can’t do much else than try and educate the few people we face in our lives.
But if it was ever possible, I would do much want to try the game and ultimately watch this show too, if it ends up being decent in production terms. Just can’t see that happening, which is sad.
Most people don’t seem to care, and I guess that’s valid.
I don’t think it’s valid
Really not looking forward to a repeat of the time of the Hogwarts Legacy game. Online Trans spaces were being brigaded with every reveiw or JKR tweet and comment sections filled unchallenged with tacit endorsements after the trans voices fell silent because we were all just hoping the abuse would stop. That the HP targeted adds and their companion transphobic political adds riding on the wake of the high on queer creators would dry up. The media, the platforms the people coming into places proclaiming they are gunna buy multiple copies of the game to show us what is what. The suicidal ideation of our most vulnerable friends as they deal with feelings of being targeted and feelings of being unwanted or ignored by the world…
Most people not caring might not be “valid” but it will feel like the truth again.
Well, were you to find it on the high seas, you could still enjoy the universe without contributing to anything related…
That’s what someone I know (possibly the one writing this post) does with games from shitty developers/editors that I still want to try.I definitely don’t think we should boycott every creation that comes from a shitty person. I mean, Thomas Edison was a pretty terrible person, from what I understand.
Thanks for voicing your disagreement. While I happily engage in this discussion, I believe your initial argument is somewhat lacking.
I believe there are two major differences between Edison and Rowling:
- In my opinion, we can all without Rowling’s writings (there is a lot of better fantasy out there for everyone) but we rely on a lot of technology attributed to Edison in our daily lives and not using them would be next to impossible (at least for me)
- AFAIK using techs attributed by Edison doesn’t contribute to his personnal wealth or help him push a transphobic and generally far-right agenda
What do you think ?
I certainly agree, but I was seeing some others in this thread who don’t
can these people really say they feel it’s totally ok to enjoy a classicist story about discrimination, slavery, and child abuse, etc.?
Not sure about the book but the movies are quite good and don’t promote directly any of the things you claim
FAMILY guy pretty much foreshadowed her writing, and “coming out as transphobic, but a couple years” they were on to sometime that people were ignorant back then.(there was at least 2 cutscenes about her). 1 where peter was reminiscing about her “know problematic writing of jk rowling”
Never read one completely nor watched a full movie, but it always felt cheap and written from the unenlightened perspective of a simple mind to me.
The fantasy books of my generation, such as The Neverending Story, Momo, The Hobbit, Jim Knopf were a whole different level. Life experience and a touch of wisdom in a great story for children.
But I also think that it might be just my perspective, since my mind has been imprinted like that. I’m not judging anyone for being a Harry Potter fan and try to think of it as different, not worse.
I would imagine reading the books or watching the movies as a child probably endeared them to a lot of people. Don’t underestimate the nostalgia that people have, especially before it was widely known how troublesome the author is.
Piers Anthony was my jam as a kid
Oof. Lots of good puns, but watch out for the incest and sexualization of minors …
Reading them as a minor made it hot??? 😬🤷♂️
JK Rowling sounds like an incredibly talented author. Most people just massage things into place. Reuse tropes. But you’re saying she baked her worldview into practically every sentence?
If I see ugliness in the world, I might express it as I see it. I don’t have to think something is right for me to include it in a story. Do you think I’m special? Am I the only person capable of writing things that I don’t necessarily support? Everyone else is forced to include things they personally would vote for. If you write about slavery, that means you love slavery. Is it weird that I’m capable of being against slavery, yet it’s possible for me to include it in stories? Should I be using this power?
I didn’t realize Rowling was one of the best authors. I thought she just reused things without really thinking. I never knew it was 100% meticulous and so… thought out. I don’t think even Tolkien can be said to inject so much meaning into every single page.
You realize she didn’t write about slaves right? She made the main character a slave owner and had a plot point about how much the slaves love being slaves and dobby is just weird for not wanting to be a slave.
Am I the only person capable of writing things that I don’t necessarily support?
I can’t speak to that. But I can say that I don’t think that sentiment applies to her. And I think there’s a difference between a viewpoint that one can objectively examine from both sides, and a bias, that is so deeply ingrained to one’s psyche that it colors how one perceives the world. And yes, I do think both things exist.
It’s pretty simple. Rowling is an avowed bigot who is using all of her means, financially and socially, to punish trans people for existing. She is a hateful person who should be judged harshly and ostracized. It will be a good day for the world when she is no longer able to or allowed to espouse her bigoted views.
Supporting her in anyway, be it paying for her works or even enjoying her content should be stigmatized to the maximum degree. Actors agreeing to work with or for her should lose everything, as they are even worse for helping to continue her pursuit of hate and villainy.
If she were to fall down a literary flight of stairs, I would be most pleased—especially if this were to happen daily until she were unable to fall any further.
Here’s to hoping that anyone that hitches their wagon with hers suffers pain and ruin.
If she were to fall down a literary flight of stairs
She already did - it was called the Harry Potter series.
What? You mean a celebrity doesn’t really give a fuck about people and just wants to make money? But they were so silly and sweet in their interviews!
Unless this hurts their bottom line, I doubt they’ll move. Her behavior is not new and they auditioned and signed the contract anyway, the same way people still buy their house themed merch and take trips to Potter land or whatever the fuck it’s called. That woman’s growing wealth is a sign of just how little people are willing to give up.
a sign of just how little people are willing to give up.
Also telling a lot about how much many people care about transphobia. Or trans rights at all
John Lithgow reacted to the open letter mentioned in this article, sent to him by “a very good friend who is the mother of a trans child” by saying “Why is this a factor at all?” and expressing sympathy for the transphobic bigot.
So it’s unfortunate that he probably wouldn’t know what a social media is if it slammed him right in the asshole - which is the entirety of him - because he certainly sounds deserving of decades of hell. Especially from his now hopefully former “very good friend.”
“I thought, ‘Why is this a factor at all?’ I wonder how J.K. Rowling has absorbed it. I suppose at a certain point I’ll meet her, and I’m curious to talk to her," he said.
“Decades in hell” for being a clueless, out of touch old man? Jesus Christ you people are unhinged. You fucking act like he’s personally bankrolling her anti-trans crusade.
Hopefully he dies early in production. How’s that for winding down?
I wonder if he’d be ok with others wishing he would die. Or is it only acceptable when he’s playing a character or working for bigots? In any case I’m sure he finds it all very exciting.
Never give these people an inch, or they’ll take a mile.
When you say “these people”, who exactly are you referring to?
Because they’re supporting the anti-trans hag?
The parents of the child actors should be getting plenty of pushback. Exploiting their kids like this is gross.
It’s like seeing pictures of kids in KKK robes.
Wanting children to get hate for some other woman’s opinions is wild lol
Before I get more down votes. They clearly said. “Should”.
They’re talking about the parents…
How naive of you.
They clearly said. “The parents”.
I understand what they said. I was implying towards society. Not that commentator. And you fucking know that lol
What?! No, in no way did that come across, especially not when you very clearly directed it at the other commenter when you said “They clearly said. “Should”.”.
It’s almost like we shouldn’t blame others for another. I dunno. Maybe I’m a trans hater like the trans community wants to paint anyone that enjoys Harry Potter.
Brother, it’s Harry Potter which is not exactly a thing you can’t live without lmfao
You’re making it sound like they’re asking you to give up breathing
I can choose what I can and cannot live without. Without your insane judgment and ideas off a single situation. But alas. Nuance is lost on modern society.
Saying “I can’t live without Harry Potter”, that’s hyperbole. Or if you’re serious, it’s just funny.
The argument is that funding Harry Potter directly funds JJ Rowling - whom then proudly and openly uses her wealth to pay for campaigns to enact anti-trans legislation and pays suppot to regressive anti-LGBTQ groups. Its a boycott.
People are justified in judging those who know this yet continue to support Rowling’s products monetarily or act in them as LGBT hostile.
From all the online back and forth I’ve seen though, few care if you pirate them therefore denying monetary support <- that’s nuance.
Upon re reading it does come off that way but I was using the previous commentarys language towards it not being serious that I couldn’t live without it. Apologies lol
Ah, all good. I didn’t downvote either way, just commented to try to make sense of the discussion. Sarcasm or facetious language is easily lost over text - thanks for clarifying
Nuance? Nuance is not to jump to conclusions about the entire trans community and the “insane judgement” of anyone who disagrees with you. You’re making all kinds of assumptions and not demonstrating much ability with nuance so far.
I was told earlier to walk into the sea for my opinion of enjoying Harry Potter. I am not generalizing
Do you… not know what the word generalize means? It’s to take something specific - like, say, the interaction you’re describing - and use it to infer the general characteristics of an entire community. To reduce an entire group of people to your anecdotes of individuals.
I understand you think my single comment I mentioned is my only experience with this reaction in your community. But that’s just naive and rude to assume id generalize in that fashion. This is consistent behaviour from the community towards this fandom.
But I’m the one generalizing. Lol.
you were told to go swimming? are you a cat do you hate water or something?
Lol. Insane.
Ever read the Stormlight Archives? You might enjoy them
I have not. Will check it out though. Ty for insight.
Edit: ah Sanderson. I’m reading Elantris rn!
If you’re going to make broad generalizations about every trans person like that, I mean, maybe. There are trans people that read HP and trans people that don’t GAF.
Agreed. Thank you for understanding nuance. Unlike others here.
I didn’t say I agreed with either of those groups of trans people. They just exist, and flattening trans people as a whole into a one dimensional caricature to frame yourself as a victim is crass any time, doubly so during Pride month.
I didn’t say I agreed with any groups of people either. Wtf are you even saying here? Lol
Oh yeah, you’re a trans hater if you’re paying for any HP media. No doubt or questions about it. Straight up scumbag move to be funding that shit.
If you’re paying her, you’re part of the reason she has so much money to give her anti-trans organisations. It’s directly causal and you need to take responsibility for where you’re sending your money. 🙏
Maybe I’m a trans hater like the trans community wants to paint anyone that enjoys Harry Potter.
That kind of wild generalization certainly makes you sound like a trans hater.
No one is claiming that everyone who likes Harry Potter hates trans people. But any interaction you have with Harry Potter books, movies, merchandise, etc. makes money for one of the most prominent trans haters in the world and helps her to spread her hateful message. At least pirate her stuff if you care.
If you cared you’d know I am a pirate already by my comments here. But. You. Don’t.
you literally came into this thread with an agenda
What? Lol I do not have an agenda. I’m just some dude that wants to enjoy trans people and Harry Potter. (That doesn’t give JK any money).
Feigning ignorance of the meaning of the word “agenda” is not a defense.
You have an agenda. You went in the comments to spread it. And it’s incredibly obvious to anyone who can read.
I personally do not have an agenda I am aware of. It might appear in that fashion but again. I am a single person with my own emotions and my own feelings informed on my experiences. I am not intended to be some one else’s fucking champion. I’m just annoyed at this exact bullshit in our society. We might agree on literally 99.99% of everything else. But you won’t care. Cause I like Harry Potter!
Attempting to both deny your agenda and then asserting it in the same comment. Truly peak.
Does agenda mean opinion? I’m confused here actually
Yes. You are. We are asking you not to engage with a very specific thing, and you are refusing. You are stamping your feet like a toddler that we are asking you not to give money to someone that is using that money to fund anti-trans lobbying.
So yes, you are a “trans hater” and need to do better.
Also what money. I haven’t given anyone money. I’m a pirate you dunce.
You don’t see how cultural relevance has caused HBO to cut JK Rowling a check in order to make this show, which she then turns around and donates to anti-trans organizations?
Pirate or not, people watching and interacting with this stuff and talking about it with other people keeps it in the public consciousness. As long as it remains part of the zeitgeist then Rowling continues to profit from it.
It’s quite easy to find other, better stories about wizards that don’t directly fund bigotry. I recommend Dresden Files.
Jim Butcher is also… not great
This is news to me, but I hardly know everything there is to know about him.
Any specifics? I would like to know. I recommend his books frequently.
I’m allowed to enjoy what I enjoy without your personal judgment. I assure you I am an ally but you don’t care because I like Harry Potter.
I assure you I am an ally
An ally wouldn’t make generalizations about all trans people like this:
Maybe I’m a trans hater like the trans community wants to paint anyone that enjoys Harry Potter.
Why not when feeling attacked by a community they defend naturally?
Nonsense. Not agreeing with you does not paint me as a hater. That is extreme cap. Get outta your bubble lol
What is there to even enjoy? The world building is trash, the characters are shallow, and the setting is mid and bland. You really going to die on this hill?
Read another book, I’m begging you.
In your opinion.
Learn to let people enjoy what they enjoy and stop hating people’s personal opinions when they don’t align?
The books are a bit shit tho
Re read my comment. IDC about your opinion. I’m taking about mine?
No, I hate that you’re giving money to a transphobe that wants me dead. You are responsible for what your money does.
I just look down on you for having shit tastes.
These are totally different positions.
Read another book.
As I’ve stated. I don’t spend money on her. So learn to read before judging. Lol
I also hate that you’re defending people who give money to the transphobe. Whether you give her your money or not doesn’t change the fact that you’re going to bat for people who do give her their money.
If all of her fans only pirated I wouldn’t mind.
Blanket hate is sad.
It’s always moraly right to pirate any harry potter media.
More morally right to never indulge in any Harry Potter media at all. Don’t reinforce the hype by watching that crap, even if by piracy.
I don’t pirate things I boycott. Professionals have standards.
Not this show. Don’t pirate it, don’t discuss it on social media, don’t make memes about it. Let it die because of cultural insignificance.
Sadly, Disney keeps it alive with their theme park homage. Fans be craza. No stopping the Potter cult.
Starting a covert, underground marketing campaign on Lemmy this early is pretty extreme. I guess we can’t underestimate fandom: the promoters here don’t need payment with this kind of passion.
Due to how capitalism works, every purchase you make helps fund oppression. That’s how the system was designed: to ensure those in power who wish to oppress will ensure wealth is funnelled into their pockets through their convoluted system of ownership.
If it isn’t Harry Potter media that tangentially funds Rowling through royalties it is something else that funds another bigoted owner somewhere along the supply chain of the rest of the items you purchase in your life.
You really give a shit about this? Then direct your criticisms at the convoluted system that forces people to give up the things they enjoy because some bigot holds a piece of paper that says they own an idea.
This production has nothing to do with JK except for the fact she has a piece of paper that entitles her to reimbursement. That’s the problem, not the people simply trying to make a living or people indulging in media that they enjoy.
You can’t opt out of capitalism. You can opt out of not funding Rowling
Congratulations on missing the point
yeah yeah we all live in a society, you’re extra deep, we know the schtick. Not what we’re here for
We’re doing what we can, and that’s a whole lot more valuable than sitting around and talking about what we should do when we can’t at the moment.
Please, tell us your plan to dismantle capitalism that requires us to blindly consume Harry Potter media.
Just because there’s an underlying issue doesn’t mean that it’s pragmatic to hyperfocus on it and ignore the more immediate issues. If I have cancer, I’m not gonna stop eating fruit because I really need to focus on fighting the cancer and my other health-conscious activities need to be put on hold. That’s not how responding to problems works.
if they missed your point you should feel the urge to be more clear. Not act holier than thou
Then help them understand your point of you feel they missed it.
Sorry but I really don’t follow. Are you saying we shouldn’t boycot and socially cancel products created by bigots?
There’s so much entertainment and its honestly kinda sad that people would sacrifice their moral and justice stance for sake of “comfort consumption”. Ew.
Yes that’s their point. “no ethical consumption under capitalism” There are no degrees of evil or complicity, shut up and let me continue to not think about what I’m paying for when I buy nestle chocolate. You can’t be perfect so trying to cause less harm is just a distraction.
Eh disagree with this weakling mindset. It is our duty to be responsible and caring citizens even in systems you disagree with.
