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- cross-posted to:
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I used to have a QA job. Can confirm, this is the soup in my head. That’s why I was good at testing. Also, that’s not your sister. That’s your trans brother, who we also love. See?
Also misses the edge case where sister was born on a leap day
Or maybe in a country that recently switched from the Julian calendar, adding the possibility of >12 months between birthdays as described by calendar.
https://github.com/eggert/tz/blob/main/calendars has entered the chat.
Also, as ever, relevant XKCD.
I wish I had a QA like this.
I design software, another guy builds it, then I test it. I seem to have a really good intuition for ferreting out the edgiest of edge cases and generating bugs. Pretty sure he hates my guts.
Project Managers and software designers are hated for their “designing”. The testing is always very welcome.
Love this, 100% accurate. QA people are amazing, protect us from ourselves in so many ways we didn’t even think of.
It’s also the system administrator and SRE mindset.
But they still don’t think of all common user possibilities. I like this joke:
A software tester walks into a bar.
Runs into a bar.
Crawls into a bar.
Dances into a bar.
Flies into a bar.
Jumps into a bar.
And orders:
a beer.
2 beers.
0 beers.
99999999 beers.
a lizard in a beer glass.
-1 beer.
“qwertyuiop” beers.
Testing complete.
A real customer walks into the bar and asks where the bathroom is.
The bar goes up in flames.
Bathroom testing was not in scope.
This one’s on management.
You know, I feel like management deciding what is and isn’t in scope on their own is itself asking for trouble.
I wish our test team was like that. Ours would respond with something like “How would I test this?”
Tester here, I only have to do this if the ticket is unclear / its not clear where impact can be felt by the change. I once had a project with 4 great analysts and basically never had to ask this question there.
We added an API endpoint so users with permission sets that allow them to access this can see the response.
Ok… What is the end point, what’s the permission, is it bundled into a set by default or do I need to make one, what’s the expected response, do we give an error if the permission is false or just a 500?
They always make it so vague
And if one dev responds with “Just look at the swagger” to those questions I’m gonna cry
ID: String (required)
BUT WHAT FORMAT?!?
I feel this in my core bro
I have worked with some excellent testers but I have also worked with a team that literally required us to write down the tests for them.
To be fair, that wasn’t their fault because they weren’t testers. They were finance people that had been seconded to testing because we didn’t have a real test team.
The current team is somewhere in between.
Look I don’t think its bad to have people like that testing, but you’d need a test team to write the test for them or have those people specifically interested in testing the software.
I’ve had a project where we as testers got out most bugs during test phase, after that it went to staging and there were a few business people who always jumped on testing it there and found bugs we couldn’t think of cause they just knew the business flows so well and we had to go off what our product owners said.
Leaving all testing to a non-testing team isn’t gonna work
Programmer should have written all the test cases, and I just run the batches, and print out where their cases failed.
Ewww, no. The programmer should have run their unit tests, maybe even told you about them. You should be testing for edge cases not covered by the unit tests at a minimum and replicating the unit tests if they don’t appear to be very thorough.
This.
My units and integration tests are for the things I thought of, and more importantly, don’t want to accidentally break in the future. I will be monumentally stupid a year from now and try to destroy something because I forgot it existed.
Testers get in there and play, be creative, be evil, and they discuss what they find. Is this a problem? Do we want to get out in front of it before the customer finds it? They aren’t the red team, they aren’t the enemy. We sharpen each other. And we need each other.
I think that the main difference is that developers tend to test for success (i.e. does it work as defined) and that testers should also test that it doesn’t fail when a user gets hold of it.
Most of the best QA folks I’ve worked with had teenage children.
I imagine dealing with developers is similar.
I love working with competent QA engineers. It’s always a humbling experience.
I learned more about how computers work from them than I did in all my schooling.
Hey! My company just fired ours today!
After all, most delays can directly be traced to the QA department. Wise business decision!
Yes, I second this. QA has caught so many things that did not cross my mind, effectively saving everyone from many painful releases
I’ve worked with some insanely talented devs who were amazed at some of the shit I was able to pull and we could have a laugh about it
Physicist: “assuming a spherical year …”
In a frictionless vacuum
Id hate to experience a vaccum with friction.
Ahhh I’m rubbing up against all this nothing so roughly it feels almost sticky
Time slipping through the fingers with an acceleration of g
All I wanted was a cubical day
TIMECUBE!
clearly the answer is 22
I like this one better https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25851770
Didn’t even consider leap years. Smh
That’s the customer answer, where they give an age in leap years, and everything goes to pot.
So by this definition testers are annoying due to being super pedantic and precise.
Disagree, I think programmers are annoying in exactly the same way.
I’m a Dev with no QA so i just have to be neurotically pedantic so nobody goes to jail
Good
I mean, no, the tester didn’t say anything wrong here, and all of those (and more) are conditions one must take into account if one were to write a piece of software without errors
It’s never about whether the tester was wrong, its whether we really needed to spend 30 minutes in a 45 minute meeting about project timelines discussing it.
No, the meeting could have been an email
I think it’s more about how testers always run into all the edge cases programmers don’t think about
Ah this is a perfect example, thank you for providing a sample “programmer response”. Lol
Can confirm, not even an official tester (just an open beta tester) and have acrued a reputation for having a legendary bug aura that can cause catastrophic and previously unseen edge cases to occur just by opening the software (game)
Am I an oddball in that as a developer, that QA answer is the sort of answer I give? It annoys management to no end.
A developer with a QA mindset is never a bad thing in my opinion. It makes sure issues are fixed earlier and saves time (and for management, money)
Nope, a good developer asks exactly the first thing with the birthdays. If you don’t have proper data it’s impossible to give the correct answer. This is the difference from an experienced developer to a junior.
How are edge cases supposed to be covered if the developer can’t imagine them? It would save SO MUCH time if everyone were as detail oriented and creative as you.
import birthday; let myAge1 = 4; let sisterAge1 = 2; let myAge2 = 44; let sisterAge2 = birthday.deriveAge(myAge1, sisterAge1, myAge2); print(sisterAge2);Any bugs should be reported upstream. Please open a tracking issue to sync changes with eventual upstream fixes.
The API has the wrong abstraction and the type definitions fail to capture necessary information (such as in which year you were of the given age) and thus conversions can not be guaranteed to be correct
I’m a programmer and my answer would be more like the tester’s answer.
But okay I also used to be a tester so this comment is probably invalid.
Managers when a tester does this in a planning meeting, asking for more time to write better teats: 😠
Managers when a staff level engineer does this in a post-fuckup root cause analysis meeting telling everyone what went wrong: 🤤
Managers when the tester points out it wouldn’t have happened if tests for it had gotten written:
Probably? Nah mate, your box of stuff, has already been chucked out of the window… You are next
That’s a good tester.
In my experience coders usually make absolutely terrible testers, testing only for the most inane case, or just positive cases (ie, it does the nominal case without bursting into fire).
