Allegations of sexual crimes should always be taken seriously and addressed immediately, however, that’s not the same as taking the words of the victims words as the truth. A due process has to be mandatory and proof must remain a non negotiable requirement to arrest and punish someone. That’s the one and only way justice can be served.
That is a different topic. Conviction is not belief. Don’t be sneaky, please.
Here are all of the Epstein Files that have either been leaked or released.
https://joshwho.net/EpsteinList/gov.uscourts.nysd.447706.1320.0-combined.pdf (verified court documents)
https://joshwho.net/EpsteinList/black-book-unredacted.pdf (verified pre-Bondi) Trump is on page 85, or pdf pg. 80
Trump’s name is circled. The circled individuals are the ones involved in the trafficking ring according to the person who originally released the book. These people would be “The List “ Here is the story.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsiKUXrlcac
Here’s the flight logs https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21165424-epstein-flight-logs-released-in-usa-vs-maxwell/
—————————other Epstein Information
https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Johnson_TrumpEpstein_Calif_Lawsuit.pdf here’s a court doc of Epstein and Trump raping a 13 yr old together.
Some people think this claim is a hoax. Here is Katies testimony on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnib-OORRRo
Epstein’s Ex Says He Boasted About Being a Mossad Agent https://share.google/jLMGahKlCzfV1RHZq Epstein and Israel both hired lawyer Alan Dershowitz, who says he’s building ‘legal dream team’ to defend Israel in court and on internationally | The Times of Israel https://share.google/Lb9hDOduBWG4Elpid
Epstein Docs: https://ia600705.us.archive.org/21/items/epsteindocs/
Epstein Bribes/Payments: 1 BILLION+ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7IrEi-ybzs
—————————other Trump information:
Here’s trump admitting to peeping on 14-15 year old girls at around 1:40 on the Howard Stern Radio Show: https://youtu.be/iFaQL_kv_QY
Trump’s promise to his daughter: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-ivanka-trump-dating-promise_n_57ee98cbe4b024a52d2ead02 “I have a deal with her. She’s 17 and doing great ― Ivanka. She made me promise, swear to her that I would never date a girl younger than her,” Trump said. “So as she grows older, the field is getting very limited.”
Trump’s modeling agency was probably part of Jeffreys pipeline: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/08/donald-trump-model-management-illegal-immigration/
A good summary of Trump-Epstein timeline: https://thepresidential.medium.com/we-have-been-gaslit-about-donald-trump-and-jeffrey-epstein-for-four-years-fbda67c20f75
• Much of this info can also be found on: https://theepsteindocs.com/
Feel free to do your part and spread this info around so it is never “lost”.
You can’t just convict someone on vibes
No you can’t. You can however refuse to give them a job because they keep making inappropriate remarks about women and multiple women have accused them of sexual abuse, rape and harassment.
EXACTLY. You don’t need to “trust”, you can look at the comments that were consistently made in regards to women, the vile behavior he engaged in, the known relationships, and the week court cases, i.e the evidence that was there in plain sight but people chose to ignore
Fortunately pretty much everyone agrees
It’s not called “vibes”, it’s called “witness testimony” and every country on earth totally does convict people based on that
There was just a high profile case involving 5 NHL players that went on for years with no actual proof of a rape happening because a claim was taken seriously. They were found not guilty because in Canada the Crown has to prove a crime actually happened you don’t just trust someone without proof. People are claiming they probably did it, and let’s be clear they probably did, but we don’t convict people for probably doing something.
(Insert someone finding an example of a clearly innocent person being convicted to claim it’s the norm)
I mean, if anyone without Trump’s money and influence had this many accusations leveled against them, you can be pretty sure they’d be behind bars by now. It’s not that the women aren’t being trusted, it’s that the entire fucking system is broken. Or more accurately, is designed to serve the rich and powerful.
Why can’t we just rely on common sense instead of jumping to massive generalizations regarding someones gender?
Trump has been covered in red flags regarding his treatment of women for years. E. Jean Carroll? Stormy Daniels? Katie Johnson? The Hollywood Access Tape?
I’m a little anxious that if Me Too blows up again it may have the opposite effect intended, and instead deflect attention away from Trump as people argue over the movement itself.
I’ve heard some people call this the ‘him too’ movement. It’s supposed to encapsulate the idea that right now we’re seeing white men pushback against the ‘Me Too’, BLM, and ‘Trans rights are human rights’ movements.
Yep more for us doesn’t mean less for them. It’s not a pie!
We all know. The rest is theatre.
This!
Trust but verify.
While in theory this is a good idea, I have first-hand experience with people grouping together and accusing me of doing things with another (at the time) underage individual, trying to get me kicked out of school/smear my name/see me imprisoned/etc…
The issue? The other underage individual they said I was doing things with, was female. Me, I’m gay as fuck. Which was made pretty obvious during questioning. Also upon examination with the other individual being tested and questioned separately… Suprise, they found that, indeed, both testing and questioning showed the accused activities were completely unfounded. All parties that made these false claims admitted that they were falsified shortly thereafter. I could have sued them, and their families (since they too were underage) - this could have actually ruined my life, these things should be punished, these traumas compensated - but I decided against it, just wanting the situation to go away. It was an awful experience, and I still have trust issues; one of the accusers was friends with me. At least, so I thought.
Now, that’s not to say ‘oh they are lying’ in this case, but you can’t just blanket believe either side. You need facts, proof, evidence. Imagine if I were to make these claims about you - suddenly you are interested in evidence and due process.
(I won’t be replying to any replies to this comment - don’t want to tear open that scar any more than I already have writing this)
You’re situation, while tragic, has nothing to do with his. He has been found guilty of assault in court. He has paid hush money and come to settlements. He has had his due process and now is sitting in the highest seat possible and no one is safe.
The original pic uses non-specific language. If you find people responding as if it’s a generalization, that’s because it is.
The thing is, though, that whilst false reports do happen – and I’m in no way trying to downplay the tragedy and horrific consequences for victims of that, such as in the case of this thread’s OP – that’s far rarer than the much more common case of women being ignored, put off, and scoffed at when they try to report actual sex crimes.
I was groomed as a child and nobody would listen to me. Then I was kidnapped and raped for months – when I finally escaped and found the police, I was sent to a juvenile detention centre for being delinquent. Finally, after much therapy as an adult, I again tried to report my crime, and the first officer basically said I was wasting their time, and implied it was my fault.(e: I do have an open case now with a sergeant who takes me seriously, but that took some climbing of the hierarchy to find.)
This is extremely common, and part of why many, many women don’t even bother to report these crimes.
The ‘believe women’ thing is because of this, and reacting to such stories with ‘well actually I knew a woman who made up charges’, whilst true and horrible, feeds those who want to believe women are likely to make this shit up when it’s so common that 1 in 6 women will experience assault, and many are afraid to report it. That can be generalised, because it’s shockingly common.
e: people make up and falsely report all sorts of crimes – burglary is a big one. Lots of people make up burglaries when they’re in dire straits and realise they can get more for insurance than selling their things. Or arson. But when someone reports a burglary or arson, you don’t see others jumping in to say ‘well actually, my ex said I burgled her for insurance purposes.’ That absolutely happens, but it’s uncommon and irrelevant to burglary victims’ crimes. We all can see that has nothing at all to do with real burglaries. That’s a whole different crime.
Sorry, /rant, but this is personal to me.
e2: I was on a fast track for uni at a very young age, and this derailed my entire life. It wasn’t a brief but terrible thing; it ruined my whole future before I was 15. So I’m sorry for having a bit less empathy about this. Instead, my trajectory was bowling alley janitor to ‘accountant’, to short-order cook, to telemarketer, to delivery driver, to cook, to restaurant manager, to erotic dancer (no sex), to residential property manager, to cashier (retail), to assistant manager, to manager, to designer (I’d been learning design and development in my free time in the mid 90s), to teacher (of programming to state workers), to programmer, to dba, to project manager – then back to designer so I could really learn and do it. That was my last job.
It’s even easier to lie and blame a previously convicted person
Indeed the Republicans should not have supported such an individual, nor people should have voted for him, but it’s a quite different story.
While I feel sorry for your experience, rape can ruin a life just as much and happens more often (and unpunished) than false accusations. They actually took you serious and made sure to do the proper interogations to find out people were lying. We are just asking they do the same for women who are raped.
I am all for seeing trump and anyone else in that list behind bars, but this kind of bullshit thinking goes nowhere.
At least 26 separate women have accused Trump of SA over the course of the last 50 years, many of them before he entered politics. One of them even got a civil court to find as fact that he committed rape.
Just how many witnesses do you need here? Would another 26 be enough? How about a thousand?
how is it bullshit please explain…
I’d assume it the bulshit is based on a different interpretation of the word “believe”. Some people mean “don’t need proof”, which is bulshit. Some people mean " investigate as if you thought it were true", which is not bulshit.
I dont think it’s going to be a “list” like a nice spreadsheet itemising various white guys liaisons with under-age women including names, dates of birth, and witness details.
Whatever is released, if anything, is going to be ambiguous and you’re going to need to weigh the information and its source.
This meme is challenging people who would generally line up behind the conservatives to consider other sources of information.
We believe them, we just need to prove it.
People believe in magic sky daddy, im still waiting for proof there too. To be clear, if proof appears im obeying sky daddy so hard.
Because people lie. What we can do is to not victim shame so women would be less afraid to come forward. This alone would help deter a would be attacker
Agreed.
It would also help out men and boys to have a safe environment to come forward with their claims without facing abuse from society/police.
Because the list takes the onus away from women needing to speak out. We shouldn’t require victims to expose themselves if we have other evidence.
For the record: numerous women have spoke out against Trump for sexual misconduct while underaged. All the named ones are from Miss America or Miss Universe competitions. A couple of Epstein’s victims have filed charges against Trump too but those remain anonymous.
“At least” twenty-five women have publicly accused him and some have gone to court - here’s the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations
Yeah but when victims do expose themselves, it’d be nice if a bunch of online shit heads didn’t constantly chant 'women are liars! They only want money!"
your also forgetting death threats from magats, that forced one to drop lawsuit against him.
Agreed
Preaching to the choir in a place like Lemmy.
It’s not just about trump tho and it’s about concrete evidence. The list is yk about getting a list of all the perpetrators.
First hand witness testimony is evidence though.
And fwiw we’ve already got it. Not to mention he’s already been found guilty of rape in a court of law if we want to go through the whole “sexual assault means rape and the judge said so” thing. “He’s a rapist” is a statement of fact, even if the cowards at ABC News don’t want to say so again.
Well, yes but it’s not just about trump tho. Like the point of the list would be to get more names of more people. And that’s not even mentioning how most of the epstein list stuff was less about holding pedophiles responsible but about trump building and profiting off of a conspiracy narrative.
I think people do.believe them, it’s just the way justice systems work. It has to be proved without shadow of a doubt.
To give a serious answer you are right. Its not what you its what you can prove.
Justice systems? Where? What woukd that even look like?
