Donald Trump has said that Palestinians have “no alternative” but to leave Gaza due to the devastation left by Israel’s war on Hamas, in effect endorsing ethnic cleansing of the territory over the opposition of Palestinians and the neighbouring countries.
Speaking as he prepared to host Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, on Tuesday, Trump repeated the suggestion that Gaza’s population should be relocated to Jordan and Egypt – something both countries have firmly rejected.
Trump claimed Palestinians would “love to leave Gaza”, telling reporters: “I would think that they would be thrilled.”
I’m calling it, this era will be worse than the bush era when it comes to American atrocities.
Accelerationism has made things worse for everyone. Now we have a US president who has declared his intention to ethnically cleanse the Gaza Strip of Palestinians. If you want things to get better then you have to act in a way that is useful to that end. That means voting for parties that are to the left of fascists and that have a chance of winning. In the US, that’s the Democrats.
Did any of the Palestinians ever regret all those kidnappings? It brought so much suffering, yet no word of regret and still some hostages remain.
Eat shit, you sadistic monster
So, I am a sadistic monster for pointing out that kidnapping civilists and meístreating them instead of just getting rid of your extremist leaders led to the desaster. And not even showing regret and distancing yourself from those religious zealots doesn’t help, of course. But I am the monster, not the kidnappers. How dillusional are you???
Do you hold the Israeli forces that hold hostage without atrial or any evidence of wellbeing to the same standard?
Compare a photo of a IDF prisoner to a photo of someone who was held hostage by Hamas. And stop comparing hostages with prisoners.
https://hamoked.org/files/2023/1666260.pdf
Israel makes wholesale use of administrative detention - holding Palestinians without charge or trial, for terms that can be renewed indefinitely. These detentions are based exclusively on secret information, preventing any meaningful judicial review.
How do you define hostage versus prisoner when people are being locked up for indefinite periods of time based on ‘evidence’ that they, their lawyers or anyone outside the IDF are able to see?
I don’t understand how this makes taking hostages and mistreating them by Hamas even remotely understandable let alone agreeable.
In 1940, the Nazis’ plan was to relocate all Jews to Madagascar.
Just 2 years later, they started exterminating them systematically.Population transfers aren’t unheard of. In Greece/Turkey, Italians from eastern Adriatic, German from Prussia and Silesia, Pakistan/India millions of people moved.
This Holocaust comparison is completely dishonest and betrays any knowledge of how it happened. Used in this context, it’s Holocaust relativism at best and likely antisemitic.
I found this quote useful so I’m going to put it here as well as it seems incredibly relevant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing
“How could ‘forced deportation’ ever be achieved without extreme coercion, indeed violence? How, indeed, could deportation not be forced? How could people not resist? How could it not involve the destruction of a community, of the way of life that a group has enjoyed over a period of time? How could those who deported a group not intend this destruction? In what significant way is the forcible removal of a population from their homeland different from the destruction’ of a group? If the boundary between ‘cleansing’ and genocide is unreal, why police it?”
From the same Wikipedia article.
Ethnic cleansing has been described as part of a continuum of violence whose most extreme form is genocide. Ethnic cleansing is similar to forced deportation or population transfer. While ethnic cleansing and genocide may share the same goal and methods (e.g., forced displacement), ethnic cleansing is intended to displace a persecuted population from a given territory, while genocide is intended to destroy a group.
Your quote is just a bunch of insinuations leading questions without an answer. Pure bad faith.
Your argument’s defense of a nonexistent boundary between genocide and ethnic cleansing boils down to genocide denial. There is no agreed upon definition of ethnic cleansing. There is no way to peacefully forcefully relocate a group of people. An attempt to forcefully relocate a group of people is motivated by the desire to destroy that group in whole or in part.
The quote from the wiki article points out everything I have now written down in this comment. It’s written as a series of rhetorical questions with clear answers. Your argument’s effort to misrepresent the wiki page’s descriptive analysis of ethnic cleansing as an official definition is an attempt to police a none existent boundary. You argument left out the last part of that section.
Multiple genocide scholars have criticized distinguishing between ethnic cleansing and genocide, with Martin Shaw arguing that forced deportation necessarily results in the destruction of a group and this must be foreseen by the perpetrators.
A call for ethnic cleansing is a call for genocide. There is no way to engage in peaceful forceful deportation or population transfer. There is no meaningful difference between getting rid of a group by forcefully removing them and destroying them.
The Armenian genocide involved death marches, into the desert without food or water. What’s the meaningful difference between sending people to die in the desert and destroying them? There isn’t one.
https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-i/armenian-genocide
There is no meaningful difference between getting rid of a group by forcefully removing them and destroying them.
Please read that again. There’s a gigantic difference between dead or alive.
100,000 Armenians were ethnically cleansed in 2023 with less than a dozen civilian deaths. Compared that to the Armenian Genocide at the beginning of the 20th century with a million deaths.
Using the same term genocide for both is watering down the term. It betrays why it was coined in the first place.
Of course it’s still a terrible crime.
Luis Moreno Ocampo, the inaugural prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, has classified the ethnic cleansing of Nagorno-Karabakh Armenians as a second Armenian genocide, and opined that the inaction of the international community encouraged Azerbaijan to act with impunity.[34][35]
The number of deaths has nothing to do with it. The intent is the same, the only difference between the two genocides is that they were less successful at killing people in the second one. The only people that are helped by defending a distinction between ethnic cleansing and genocide, that does not exist, are the people who want to commit genocide.
Try and tell that to the face of someone whose whole family died in death camps.
I’d ask protest voters if they’re feeling pretty stupid right now, but the truth is they never gave a flying fuck about Palestinians. They only cared about feeling morally superior.
Trash humans.
Yeah, because Kamala was so pro-palestine lmfao. The democrat party’s policy was literally “maybe we’ll support genocide a little less than the other guys. Maybe.”
Like, any sane party would have seen how polling showed that a huge chunk of your base rejected your stance on Palestine and reevaluated. But nope, Dems went full steam ahead with it.
Like goddamn, you’re here calling other people trash because they didn’t want to support a candidate who was okay giving a blank check to a foreign country earmarked for carpet bombing civilians? Get over yourself jesus.
Yeah, because Kamala was so pro-palestine lmfao
What does that have to do with people who claimed they cared about Palestinians doing the right thing and voting for the BEST candidate regarding Palestine? Because Trump made it extremely clear he wanted Israel to steamroll Palestine and, oh shit, now that he’s president that’s the stance he’s taking. WHO COULD HAVE FORESEEN THIS!?!?!?!?
Honestly, you’re doing a great job of personifying the exact fools I’m talking about.
Like, any sane party would have seen how polling showed that a huge chunk of your base rejected your stance on Palestine and reevaluated.
You realize that a responsible government can’t just change its stance regarding allies every 4 years just to win an election, right? We would have no allies. It’ll be a cold day in hell before we jeopardize our most important ally in the Middle East. So are you suggesting Democrats should have stooped to Republican levels and lied to the American people by saying they would stop supporting Israel and then just taken that back after they won?
Like goddamn, you’re here calling other people trash because they didn’t want to support a candidate who was okay giving a blank check to a foreign country earmarked for carpet bombing civilians?
No, I’m here calling trash people trash for pretending they cared about Palestinians and then refusing to vote for the BEST AVAILABLE OUTCOME for Palestinians. I mean, I guess you could argue that they aren’t actually trash, but just really, really, super stupid people that somehow thought not voting for Palestinian’s best shot would be a smart thing to do. I’m willing to meet you in the middle on that one.
These dipshits sealed Palestinian’s fate AND put our own nation in extreme jeopardy. They can honestly go fuck themselves.
The amount of mental gymnastics you’re doing to justify the Democratic party supporting genocide is genuinely sad. And I do mean that, like it’s truly sad to me that so many people have convinced themselves that it’s a fine and normal thing that a nominally progressive party should support the wholesale slaughter of innocent people. I didn’t vote for that platform and I never will, because it’s truly, fundamentally evil. “Oh but it’s better then the other guy” so? I’m still voting to kill these people. I’d sooner not vote at all.
If Kamala had won, I absolutely guarantee you the overwhelming majority of Democrats would have conveniently forgotten how we were bankrolling these terrible crimes overseas.
The amount of mental gymnastics you’re doing to justify the Democratic party supporting genocide is genuinely sad.
The amount of mental gymnastics you’re doing to ignore the fact that these dipshits hurt Palestine more than they helped Palestine is genuinely sad.
I didn’t vote for that platform and I never will, because it’s truly, fundamentally evil.
Oh look, you’re one of those dipshits. You should go to Israel so they can personally thank you for helping elect Donald Trump.
I’d sooner not vote at all.
I’m trying to find out where your rock bottom is and I’m starting to think there isn’t one.
So noble that you don’t reject genocide on principle, only by if who does it is on your team or not
I’m sure the Palestinians are grateful the Democrats didn’t win.
Yes, I’m sure this would all be very sad for Palestinians but the important thing is that Genocide Joe learned his lesson.
Hey at least the genocide will be over! Trump is so much better than Kamala on this!
This is completely fucking shocking. I hope all the Uncommitted folks are proud of themselves.
I’m sorry, but were the democrats stopping the thing?
Stop framing this like this is on the people who didn’t want the genocide to happen. It’s such a weird victory lap I see people here taking. Without fail.
News: something horrible has happened in Gaza.
a bunch of people on lemmy: I was so right.
You’re reading news about people being ethnically cleansed and you’re patting yourselves on the back. What in the fuck.
The establishment US and the ownership class are all-in on this genocide. We are exactly where we would’ve been if Kamala had won. They all support Israel. The democrats just had to do some surface level finger wagging because they knew they were relying on the votes of a bunch of people who see how genocide for what it is. They were lying to you and you’re acting like Israel and the Palestinians aren’t on the same exact path they would’ve been had Kamala won.
You all are sick for taking these horrible stories as some kind of victory. The ownership class is pitting you against republicans, and you against the people who didnt vote exactly like you did in an election. And why was that? Because the people you voted for were enabling a fucking genocide.
As was said elsewhere, history won’t be kind to Biden, trump, Kamala, and Netanyahu. But it won’t be kind to the people who were looking the other way to vote for the enablers.
We were handed a shit sandwich. We all had zero good choices. So some people decided they couldn’t bring themselves to vote for enablers of genocide. That isn’t an incorrect decision. Stop fighting the people who—I mean, I’m assuming(?) you don’t support the genocide…—want to see the genocide end. Because what could you possibly be getting out of that but all these back pats you’re giving yourself?
Choice was the status quo and pushing towards a solution or palestines almost immediate erasure to violent cheers. Nothing to do with being ‘right’, about hoping yous aren’t completely cooked and see sense. Just as far gone as MAGA unfortunately.
“My candidate was the right choice and you’re wrong. You’re basically maga.”
You have to see how insane that is.
I’m not saying trump isn’t worse. I’m saying if you people cared about the genocide, you wouldn’t be trying to throw anti-genocide people under the bus. You just wouldn’t. You would be working with them toward a solution.
The other powerless people aren’t your enemy. The ownership class that is committing and profiting off this genocide is. But you all are taking aim at the underclass because it gives you a high horse to ride.
That is wrong. That’s my point. But you all just doubled down in the face of that sentiment.
Whatever you have to tell yourself I guess, right?
Oh fuck off. Kamala wouldn’t have been cheering for ethnic cleansing.
If you have two choices and one is less bad, you choose the less bad one.
Nah, she would have just continued to do it quietly, just like Biden did. You people are fucking monsters man. Absolutely no sympathy for the Palestinian people.
Ask a Palestinian how they feel about your sympathy
Notice how all those bot accounts that were so active leading up to the election have completely vanished from the internet now? Yeah.
The difference in the PoliticalCompassMeme subreddit is night and day. One of the few places you can still bully fascists without getting banned.
They’re still a few on .ml claiming Gaza/Palestinians are better under trump. Absolutely nothing will convince them otherwise
EtHnIc ClEaNsInG iS bEtTeR tHaN gEnOcIdE.
It’s different. Not “better”.
Please delineate the differences.
It is not different. They used genocide to ethnically cleanse Palestine.
History will not be kind to either Netanyahu, or the Biden/Trump presidencies.
This will mean fuck all the to Palestinians who became “displaced persons” just so the Israeli’s can have their own Lebensraum.
The rest of the world needs to get off its ass and ensure Gaza is rebuilt on Israel’s shekel for the Palestinians like a modern day Marshall plan. And ideally prosecute a couple of people for actively advancing genocide.
This will mean fuck all the to Palestinians who became “displaced persons” just so the Israeli’s can have their own Lebensraum.
Does Lebensraum mean to have the safety of not to get attacked by your neighbors? I’m not justifying this plan but to say that was Israel wanted this all along when they disengaged in 2005 and didn’t start the war is a bit out there
An awful lot can change in twenty years.
The rest of the world needs to get off its ass and ensure Gaza is rebuilt on Israel’s shekel for the Palestinians like a modern day Marshall plan. And ideally prosecute a couple of people for actively advancing genocide.
Except remember, those are America’s shekels being spent.
Well, they keep vetoing things that would help. Like calling it a genocide…
they started the war and they lost? why should israel make the concession?
Not murdering them all isn’t a concession. They can’t go live in Egypt. Egypt has 3x the population density of the US now they won’t accept gazans
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Genocide refers to the deliberate destruction of a group based on its identity, as defined by Raphael Lemkin, who introduced the term after witnessing the horrors of Nazi atrocities. The term was legally recognized in 1946 by the United Nations. Genocide includes actions such as killing, causing harm, and inflicting conditions that destroy a group. Israel’s military actions in Gaza are not aimed at destroying the Palestinian population but targeting Hamas, a terrorist organization. Statements from Israeli officials and military practices reinforce that Israel does not intend to harm innocent civilians in Gaza.
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Israel’s military response in Gaza is aimed at Hamas, not the Palestinian population, which is not genocide but a defense against a terrorist group that seeks Israel’s destruction. Hamas’s actions represent genocidal intent, targeting Israeli civilians and propagating hatred against Jews. Israel’s actions are consistent with international law, focusing on eliminating Hamas and its military infrastructure in Gaza. The use of significant military force is justified, given Hamas’s attacks on Israel. These actions are not genocide, as they are in direct response to a genocidal attack by Hamas.
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Israel’s military efforts are designed to minimize harm to Palestinian civilians, with the IDF issuing warnings before strikes and setting up humanitarian corridors. Despite challenges, Israel’s focus is on protecting civilians by evacuating them from battle zones and providing aid. The actions reflect Israel’s desire to protect civilians from harm while addressing the threat posed by Hamas. Claims of genocidal intent are contradicted by Israel’s humanitarian efforts in Gaza. The goal is to remove civilians from harm’s way while dismantling Hamas’s infrastructure.
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Hamas deliberately places Palestinian civilians in harm’s way to use them as human shields and to manipulate public opinion by inflating civilian casualties. It fires missiles from civilian areas, turning them into legitimate military targets. While Israel aims to avoid civilian harm, it cannot entirely eliminate the risk due to Hamas’s tactics. The responsibility for civilian casualties lies with Hamas, which exacerbates the situation by using civilian sites to shield its operations. Israel’s military actions, while tragic, are legally justified in targeting legitimate military objectives.
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Claims of genocide by Israel in Gaza are based on misunderstandings and unverified information. The true circumstances surrounding civilian casualties are unclear due to Hamas’s control of Gaza’s health ministry and its influence on casualty reporting. The real causes of civilian deaths, including whether they were caused by Hamas’s actions or Israeli strikes, are often unclear. Claims of genocide are fueled by misinformation, and the real blame for civilian suffering should lie with Hamas. Efforts to end the suffering in Gaza would be better focused on defeating Hamas, ensuring peace for both Palestinians and Israelis.
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