I know I’m in the minority, but I actually like the pledge, even if it’s reminiscent of authoritarianism (and I strongly believe it should be optional). But that’s because my interpretation was always “I pledge allegiance to the flag of the USA, and to the [ideals and values of the] republic for which it stands.” I viewed it as an affirmation of the commitment by myself to the “liberty and justice for all” we wanted, not as a statement of fact that no matter what the current leadership does, you should be loyal.
All that being said, I could see a contribution of the pledge to an environment of the nationalism or jingoism that led to MAGA. I just don’t blame the pledge; I blame the leaders, politicians, media personalities, and individuals that drove MAGA to become mainstream.
The biggest problem is that kids are reciting it without understanding the words they’re saying or the concepts they convey. When I was a little kid I was just repeating the syllables I was given, with no real idea about what it all meant*. Nobody should take any pledge until they can clearly explain what it means and what it means to them. And obviously a pledge should always be voluntary.
*Same as forcing a kid to go through the sacraments but I digress.
We actually had civics as part of our curriculum from first grade. I am Gen X. We had lessons in first grade about the meaning of the words. I grew up in an agricultural state and civics lessons were part of state mandated curriculum. They had a unit around election day, explaining what the lawn signs were about.
The lessons were very neutral. I mean teachers are heavily Democratic leaning and a conservative state mandated the curriculum. So they just talked about processes of democracy.
I really don’t think mandated civics education is a bad idea, really. I see many folks who share in the pain of wokeness, but feel totally helpless to act effectively because the entire apparatus of our democracy has not been made clear to them. Now that the apparatus is breaking, it’s hard to work together to fix it.
I don’t think most kids would pick up on that kind of nuance (or even most adults), but I agree there’s a valid interpretation that you’re pledging allegience to the Constitution – the Republic – and thus “indivisibility, liberty, and justice”. That is: you remain allegiant to the Constitution. But the current pledge has so much wrong with it that it’s cult-like.
Obviously get “under God” the hell out of there. Cold War-era reactionary trash.
There’s no reason to assume from the literal text that what I said is true. Why not just focus on the principles?
It’s a waste of time for kids to recite a dumb pledge they barely understand; granted they can’t force you and a lot of schools IIRC don’t do that anymore.
Even if the interpretation is true, why should this specific system of government be so glorified?
Get it the fuck out of there. It was introduced 100 years after the formation of the US by a Civil War officer as propaganda for children – probably paranoid out of his fucking mind after the South seceded. There’s no reason kids can’t learn to think for themselves when they’re ready to actually understand these ideas.
the way i see it, is that a nation needs some unifying factor, and i much rather it be some positive ideals than the fact that people are just born nearby or have the same ethnicity. That being said, i can see how it can easily be used to drive up nationalism, so i am not fully sure that the way it is, being forced to kids, is the best way
I know I’m in the minority, but I actually like the pledge, even if it’s reminiscent of authoritarianism (and I strongly believe it should be optional). But that’s because my interpretation was always “I pledge allegiance to the flag of the USA, and to the [ideals and values of the] republic for which it stands.” I viewed it as an affirmation of the commitment by myself to the “liberty and justice for all” we wanted, not as a statement of fact that no matter what the current leadership does, you should be loyal.
All that being said, I could see a contribution of the pledge to an environment of the nationalism or jingoism that led to MAGA. I just don’t blame the pledge; I blame the leaders, politicians, media personalities, and individuals that drove MAGA to become mainstream.
The biggest problem is that kids are reciting it without understanding the words they’re saying or the concepts they convey. When I was a little kid I was just repeating the syllables I was given, with no real idea about what it all meant*. Nobody should take any pledge until they can clearly explain what it means and what it means to them. And obviously a pledge should always be voluntary.
*Same as forcing a kid to go through the sacraments but I digress.
We actually had civics as part of our curriculum from first grade. I am Gen X. We had lessons in first grade about the meaning of the words. I grew up in an agricultural state and civics lessons were part of state mandated curriculum. They had a unit around election day, explaining what the lawn signs were about.
The lessons were very neutral. I mean teachers are heavily Democratic leaning and a conservative state mandated the curriculum. So they just talked about processes of democracy.
I really don’t think mandated civics education is a bad idea, really. I see many folks who share in the pain of wokeness, but feel totally helpless to act effectively because the entire apparatus of our democracy has not been made clear to them. Now that the apparatus is breaking, it’s hard to work together to fix it.
I don’t think most kids would pick up on that kind of nuance (or even most adults), but I agree there’s a valid interpretation that you’re pledging allegience to the Constitution – the Republic – and thus “indivisibility, liberty, and justice”. That is: you remain allegiant to the Constitution. But the current pledge has so much wrong with it that it’s cult-like.
the way i see it, is that a nation needs some unifying factor, and i much rather it be some positive ideals than the fact that people are just born nearby or have the same ethnicity. That being said, i can see how it can easily be used to drive up nationalism, so i am not fully sure that the way it is, being forced to kids, is the best way