What I hope for those in other countries, is that they understand that I had no control or decision of what vagina I fell out of or what dirt I landed on.
I did not choose to be American, I was just born here. And I most certainly do not agree or approve of any war.
I do hope most other decent people might agree with me.
You didn’t choose to be born American, but per your own admission in this thread you chose not to vote. So you can fuck all the way off with this sanctimonious bullshit.
I hear you, the issue for me is that a third of your country people voted for the cunt, another third didn’t care enough not to vote against the cunt, which leaves a large majority of Americans complicit in this - enough in my view to effectively use the term as a blanket reference to most people in the country.
Speaking on a more granular level, I wish you well and the best of luck - but the majority of your population can go fuck themselves.
Don’t think for a second we dont feel a strong flood emotions when we see the 66% of Americans who are a complete drain on the people around them face consequences for their actions(or inaction). The fact is, it doesnt happen nearly enough and it never changes anything.
Has it ever crossed anyone’s mind, that those of that didn’t vote, was usually because we didn’t approve of either candidate?
I never approved of orange baby, plain and simple.
Kamala was cool though, looking to help people and not deceive them, and I just might have voted for her.
But even though I have no problem with a female president, she would have too many world stage problems with countries and groups that don’t respect women at all.
So, seeing both as a risk, why would I have voted for either? Like, why did Pete Buttiguieg drop out?
That’s the real question, what forces in play made my dude Pete drop out? I sure as hell would have voted for him!
Has it ever crossed anyone’s mind, that those of that didn’t vote, was usually because we didn’t approve of either candidate?
Life is full of decisions that seemingly only have bad options, but one option was clearly drastically worse than the other.
Not voting because you don’t like either candidate despite knowing that one is a crypto fascist with the intention to burn things down is childish and, IMO, means you don’t get to say you’re not responsible for trump.
Your choice in the election is a contributing factor, you don’t get a pass because you sat out. By not voting, you tacitly endorsed trump. It sucks to hear that put in your face, but that’s the same message I had to learn after 2016. I know you won’t like the message here, but I hope you take the lesson to heart and vote for the less awful candidates (assuming we get to have elections again) instead of taking your ball, going home, and letting a Nazi take power.
Has it ever crossed anyone’s mind, that those of that didn’t vote, was usually because we didn’t approve of either candidate?
Christ, do they not teach the trolley problem anymore?
“Has it ever crossed anyone’s mind that I didn’t want the 5 guys on the main track or the 1 guy on the side track to die?”
Duh. That’s the point. You act and feel guilty about a small bad thing, or do nothing and feel guilty and a big bad thing. We got the big bad ending, feel guilty.
Portraying this as a trolley problem is misleading and manipulative.
This is not a trolley problem because:
It’s not a single decision after which there is no walking back on it, rather it’s a cyclical choice which happens every 4 years and a lot of what was done by the candidate elected in once cycle can be undone in the next (as the Republicans frequently demonstrate when one of theirs gets elected after a Democrat).
It’s not a single person making a decision, it’s millions of people all at the same time and it’s not even the average of their choices that gets executed (that would require Proportional Vote) but it’s done using a weird mathematical formula, so there are tons of situations were no matter what one’s choice is (or even not choosing at all) it makes no difference whatsoever.
Voters don’t actually know upfront what either choice will deliver. Politicians often promise one thing and do something else.
The closest philosophical or game theory example to an election is a cyclical “Ultimatum Game” between voters and politicians only it’s in the best interest of politicians that people don’t see it that way (because they would be aware that they can punishing politicians in one cycle to get them to do a different split the next one, or specifically in American politics they can Punish the DNC in one cycle for fielding a too rightwing candidate to get them to field a less rightwing candidate the next cycle) so instead their propaganda has pushed for decades this falacy that it’s an “trolley problem” and it’s companion: the idea that people must “chose the lesser evil”.
Christ, do they not teach the trolley problem anymore?
It’s honestly quite funny and downright sad that you would quote the trolley problem. There’s a reason it’s brought up in ethics courses. The whole point of the trolley problem is that there is no correct solution to it. Different ethical systems arrive at different conclusions. But here you are, going, “fuck how it’s actually used, I’ve decided the trolley problem proves that utilitarian ethics is the correct answer!”
In a utilitarian ethics framework, you would choose to run over the 1 guy or choose to vote for Kamala. In a respect for persons ethical framework, you would take no action and would refuse to vote for either Kamala or Trump.
You’ve completely failed to learn the core lesson of the trolley problem.
What are you talking about? In any ethical framework, the trolley problem presents you with the conflicting guilts of action and inaction. The ethical frameworks don’t do anything but justify whichever guilt you choose.
If one were to take a utilitarian standpoint, the means are justified by the end, which from a utilitarianist perspective, is the maximization of benefit. Hence, for a utilitarianist, whatever option guarantees the outcome of the maximum benefit is what is moral. Therefore, in the trolly case, a follower of classical utilitarianism would say that it is morally permissible to sacrifice 1 to save 5.
The deontological perspective in contrast, advocates for the means justifying the end. This, for a deontologist, the morality of the action should be based on whether the action itself is right or wrong under a series of rules, rather than being based on the consequence. In this light, a follower of deontologism would argue that it is morally impermissible to sacrifice one to save five because making the choice of having to kill someone is inherently wrong.
Again, this is the entire point of the trolley problem. No one actually give a shit about the hypothetical trolley. The whole point is to explore how different ethical systems can lead to different outcomes. There is no “right answer” to the trolley problem.
How does that have anything to do with what I said? What I said was
In any ethical framework, the trolley problem presents you with the conflicting guilts of action and inaction. The ethical frameworks don’t do anything but justify whichever guilt you choose.
That theory works great in hindsight, but before the election the orange turd was promising to stop wars, not start them.
Sure we all know he’s a liar now, but before the election, going on their campaigns, how could anyone be sure which track would actually have more bodies in the future in that Trolley Problem.
You can’t predict the future, so that’s like presenting the Trolley Problem as if the switch is 10 miles before the tracks split.
Wow… All I can say right now is that I’m continually amazed at the lengths uninformed voters go to justify being willfully ignorant about basic facts of the candidates…
That theory works great in hindsight, but before the election the orange turd was promising to stop wars, not start them
Why would you ever believe that, knowing the people that surround him, his history of aggression instead of diplomacy, or the support of Russia and Israel, two murderous regimes actively killing people in wars they’re waging?
Sure we all know he’s a liar now,
If you didn’t know he was a consummate liar before the election, you chose to be ignorant of his history. Or did you think the man who lied or missed the people Over 30,000 times in his first term had a sudden change in behavior?
but before the election, going on their campaigns, how could anyone be sure which track would actually have more bodies in the future in that Trolley Problem
By knowing any of his history? Like, we knew who he was associating with. The people who wrote project 2025 were clear on what they wanted to do. We knew from the previous administration that he would target racial minorities and anyone lgbtq+. He showed last administration that he was basically in bed with Israel, so we knew he would be worse for Gaza.
Anyone actually informing themselves about him would know his horrible past and that he would have been more deadly.
You can’t predict the future,
A quote comes to mind: “the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior,” and literally everyone paying attention predicted he would start a war of some kind. After all, we knew that in Iran specifically, they were aiming for regime change at the very least. This is an article for less than a year ago, months before the election
On Iran, Project 2025 advocates a markedly more confrontational stance, denigrating diplomacy and the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) in favor of barely veiled advocacy for regime change. The document outlines a new security architecture in the Middle East that builds on the Abraham Accords but undermines those efforts by deliberately making no mention of the Palestinian people and promising to defund the Palestinian Authority—a sabotage of any hopes for a Palestinian state. As the past year has tragically demonstrated, continued neglect of the root causes of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict will only benefit Iranian proxy recruitment efforts and risk continued violence, including attacks on American troops and installations.
…
Iran: With the Iranian nuclear program revived by the scuttling of the JCPOA, Project 2025 would now boost Tehran’s recruitment efforts in the region by deliberately sabotaging any hopes for Palestinian statehood.
And for added relevance to this very article
At a time when the doomsday clock is already set closer to midnight than ever before due to “widespread and growing reliance on nuclear weapons,” Project 2025’s solution is to ramp up the U.S. nuclear arsenal. The United States and the Russian Federation have not been in a more precarious nuclear posture since the end of the Cold War. The lapse of the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty in 2019 and the uncertain future of the New START Treaty, which is set to expire in 2026, further exacerbate tensions and raise concerns about a renewed arms race. In the Middle East, Iran is potentially days away from nuclear weapons capabilities after aggressively stockpiling uranium following the Trump administration’s withdrawal from the JCPOA. In East Asia, China has rapidly expanded its nuclear arsenal and advanced its missile technology, aiming to reach parity with the United States by the mid-2030s. North Korea has continued to enhance its own nuclear and ballistic missile capabilities, conducting frequent tests and increasing the range and precision of its systems.
So we definitely knew what was coming. Anyone saying otherwise is grossly uninformed or lying.
so that’s like presenting the Trolley Problem as if the switch is 10 miles before the tracks split.
Maybe if you had a CCTV monitor showing you the split and the people who were tied to the tracks on the other side.
This is just a desperate excuse to justify your choice based on willful ignorance. You don’t get to shirk the responsibility of your choice or the consequences thereof.
I know you won’t like it, but better to learn the hard lesson now, than repeat it again in the future, right?
Uh, dude’s been a known liar for decades. He made himself known well before 2016, even more so for the next 4 years. We all said this was going to happen, no one else is surprised. You were warned.
You gotta get in the building first. Back in 2016, me and a friend went to vote. I would have voted Vermin Supreme (legit candidate no less), and my buddy planned on writing in Batman.
We stood in line for around 2 hours. For about the last half hour of waiting it was raining. Around half of everyone knew the weather forecast and had an umbrella, including us.
They closed the voting place (library) down at 8pm sharp, and the cops told everyone in line to go home. We were probably 150~200 people back in line.
We all waited that long, even in the fucking rain, only to be ordered to leave?!
If it matters (which it probably does), our state doesn’t have early voting, you get one day to do it and that’s it.
Wait 2 goddamn hours, partly in the rain, only to get shut down with around 200 people or so waiting to vote?!
Sooo… I’ve never had a chance to see the inside of a voting facility. Not for lack of trying though.
Eh, a Trump scenario was inevitable unless people grew balls and voted for someone like Vermin Supreme. You have to be the first one to vote third party.
“I didn’t like either, so I did nothing” is such a bullshit excuse…
Like it or not, we have a two party system and this was the worst possible time for anyone to decide to do nothing. Non-voters are just as complicit in what’s going on now because they chose to do fuck all when it actually mattered… I hope the righteous objection through inaction was worth it, because people are dying as a result now.
The problem with this line of thinking is that it encourages short-term rather than long-term thinking.
From a purely utilitarian perspective, the absolute good to the absolute greatest number of people - we would have been better off if Trump won in 2020. He would have had another lame duck term in a continuation of an administration where he had a lot of restraining voices in his cabinet. He wouldn’t have had the four years to regroup and come back with an entirely different organizational structure.
A Biden win in 2020 guaranteed a Trump win in 2024. It was eminently predictable and it was widely predicted. Biden wasn’t going to do anything to address the actual causes for Trump winning. Biden was only ever going to be a temporary speed bump to fascism. He simply lacked the character to properly confront a fascist movement. He’s not morally capable of it.
Even if you stick to a purely utilitarian framework, even if you believe that harm minimization is all that mattes, sometimes voting for the lesser of two evils is the option that’s going to get more people killed.
Read my other comment, I tried in 2016, definitely wasn’t going to vote for orange. I never got to see the inside of the voting place.
After waiting around 2 hours, they shut down and cops ordered everyone remaining in line to leave at 8pm. There were probably around 200 people outside still waiting to vote…
You know mail-in, absentee, and provisional ballots are a thing, right?
Also, if you’re in line to vote and the polling place is set to close, you still have the right to cast your ballot, no matter how long it takes. They can turn new people away, but they can’t just close up and send people home if they’ve been waiting. If you were told to leave, those cops violated the law. And if they absolutely had to close, they’re required to give out provisional ballots. Know your rights dude.
Okay, good to know. Maybe I can sue the library and the cops and get to cast my 2016 vote, wouldn’t that be fucking nice if there was a time machine?
Like I said, we were in a line of probably around 200 people, and we were probably in place about 150 back towards the end of the line.
Everyone else ahead of us followed the orders first and left for their vehicles, we were towards the back of the line and were amongst the last to find out they closed as the cops ordered everyone to leave.
What the fuck you expect me to do, run around the block to get to the library door and beat on it? Get tackled and shot by cops?
You think I’m fucking stupid? If the 150 people ahead of me are complying with the cops, you think I’m gonna be the idiot to catch a bullet?
I think less of everyone involved, yes… 150-200 people straight up abandoned their legally guaranteed rights…
However, that’s getting off track…
My disappointment is with people’s inaction during THIS election. The one between a reasonably mid candidate and an absolute garbage dump of a felonious excuse for a human being.
Drag every dumb American leftist that was here during the election claiming this exact thing, or that Harris’ support of Israel was too much and Trump wouldn’t do the same. Collaborationists one and all. May as well have given the order today.
You live with that now. And as it continues to get worse I sure hope someone in your life slaps the self-serving excuses right out of you so it dawns on you, because you will have to stew in this the rest of your life.
You are the enemy, just as much as the average noncommital fascist was in the mid-20th century. You are a cautionary tale for some kid studying history in a century, assuming we get to have kids studying history in a century despite your best attempts.
You’re a speck of the nameless hordes in a rogue superpower. A collaborationist in a fascist nuclear state.
You have zero relevance as an individual. You are, fundamentally, just a small part of a big problem.
I have no obligation to care about your “individuality”. I care about your victims. Which exist. You have real, human victims now. And I really hope if you’re being honest about your self-righteous denials throughout this thread, that it at least triggers some self-awareness about that.
So when the Padres got knocked out of the World Series last year by the Dodgers I was pissed. I didn’t want to put my support behind a team I didn’t love heart and soul. I felt comfortable doing that because it was a fucking sport trophy that happens every year and not who decided who held the office of the fucking President of the United States. You’re getting downvoted because you’re treating those two scenarios as exactly the same.
Anybody who “didn’t even vote” is responsible for this. At least the 1/6 are trying to hide their guilt behind excuses. Eff all fascists, of course, but hey, at least that subsegment of them aren’t lying to themselves about it.
I hear you, the issue for me is that a third of your country people voted for the cunt, another third didn’t care enough not to vote against the cunt,
Okay I don’t think bombing Iran is a partisan issue in America. It’s more like a third supports this, half doesn’t care enough to act and the remaining sixth is too busy convincing itself that genocide is good if it’s the lesser evil. The guilt for this crosses party lines by a fair bit. I mean hell, the only vocal opposition to this is coming from people like MTG and Tucker Carlson, not anyone from the Dem political establishment.
That’s not relevant. The fact is this entire situation is developing this way because Trump is both extremely willing to go along with Israel and terrified of looking weak.
That he would give Bibi everything he wanted and make the situation worse was both known from his actions last time and a common warning to “the Dems are just as bad” delusional morons during the campaign, to their protests.
And now here we are. Delusional morons are still out there, still in denial and still entirely wrong.
Okay here’s the thing: If the Dem leadership had any problem at all with the situation in Gaza or Iran, they would’ve said something about it. It’s the evil Trump doing it, yet there’s not a goddamn peep from the Schumers and Pelosis of the party about the illegal and immoral war Trump is trying to start. The only conclusion one can make from this is that they’re okay with it, so they’d do similar if not the exact same things if Netanyahu asked nicely. The escalations we’ve seen since the January ceasefire are much better understood in terms of fascist progression and Netanyahu clinging to power.
hat he would give Bibi everything he wanted and make the situation worse was both known from his actions last time and a common warning to “the Dems are just as bad” delusional morons during the campaign, to their protests.
Because genocide Joe didn’t give him everything he wanted? I’ve seen Biden parrot the 40 dead babies nonsense, don’t try to gaslight me into believing he wasn’t Netanyahu’s bitch.
Hey, it would be great to be in a world where we can test that hypothesis.
But you made it not that world by electing this particular turd. So what we know for sure is this: you didn’t make it better.
So it’s your fault.
So you don’t get to go “boo hoo the other guy was Israel’s bitch, too”. Your self-righteous leftist cosplay may give your denial room to pretend you didn’t make it worse (you did), but now we know for a fact you didn’t help.
When the rest of reality dawns on you feel free to poke me again. In the meantime, deal with whatever amount of it your psyche can parse in your own time.
Resorting to guesses and assumptions so you don’t have to interact with my argument, I see. Well sorry to rain on your parade but, since I’m a non-American who lives on the other side of the world, I had exactly zero role in electing your turd. Now will you stop Trumpwashing your team’s atrocities or are you still digging your head in the sand?
“My team”? What team would that be? Cause my elected officials, that I voted for, are very much in the “arrest Netanyahu for genocide” camp, with my full support.
If you’re not American my claims don’t apply to you (unless you were a non-American peddling anti-Harris online propaganda during the elections, and then you’re as much to blame as the rest of the idiots that did this).
If you’re not American my claims don’t apply to you (unless you were a non-American peddling anti-Harris online propaganda during the elections, and then you’re as much to blame as the rest of the idiots that did this).
Yes, I was peddling completely non-factual anti-Harris online propaganda about Democrats doing bad things, and you still haven’t engaged with my point.
Bombing Iran and letting Israel dictate American foreign policy are two things with strong bipartisan support.
Hillary Clinton campaigned in 2008 on the promise to bomb Iran. Biden couldnt even bring it over himself to enforce a demand for Israel to no starve Gaza to death and let Netanyahu humiliate him in public multiple times. And Biden/Clintons are the ultimate Democrats establishment.
A lot of people didn’t vote for him. A lot of people didn’t vote for democrat either. A growing number of people are voting for third parties now. Not enough to sway the vote, but enough to make a statement.
I think, in my lifetime, we will see a third party finally elected. The leading parties just aren’t cutting it anymore.
It’s also hard to leave. Many of us would leave if we had the means. Even for those who wish to stay and fight the blossoming authoritarianism must wage a nearly hopeless battle against powerful disinformation machines.
Yeah, no offense, but nobody cares about how you cope or whether you leave. This isn’t about you.
We’re all pretty ok with you guys stewing in your own fascist soup. You made that bed. The concerning part is how it’s affecting everybody else. If this was entirely a you problem I would be much less worried.
But I’m not making it worse and we’ve staved it off so far.
So I will keep trying to not make it worse.
Which American leftist cosplayers spewing self-defeating, self-righteous maximalist crap to get Trump elected can’t say.
Trust me, I would much rather be dealing with their self-righteous crap than with Trump. But since we’re here, and since we tried to tell them, at least I can pop up to go “told you so” before I go back to blocking Americans and their nonsense from my feeds and try to survive their ongoing spiraling.
Exactly. You know how many countries US trans people can get asylum in? Zero. None. Zilch. There is not a country on Earth where a trans person in the US could qualify for asylum, even considering the vast rollback of trans rights currently underway. And if a member of a targeted minority group can’t get asylum status, then forget about nearly anyone else.
What I hope for those in other countries, is that they understand that I had no control or decision of what vagina I fell out of or what dirt I landed on.
I did not choose to be American, I was just born here. And I most certainly do not agree or approve of any war.
I do hope most other decent people might agree with me.
Fuck Donald Turd.
You didn’t choose to be born American, but per your own admission in this thread you chose not to vote. So you can fuck all the way off with this sanctimonious bullshit.
I hear you, the issue for me is that a third of your country people voted for the cunt, another third didn’t care enough not to vote against the cunt, which leaves a large majority of Americans complicit in this - enough in my view to effectively use the term as a blanket reference to most people in the country.
Speaking on a more granular level, I wish you well and the best of luck - but the majority of your population can go fuck themselves.
Don’t think for a second we dont feel a strong flood emotions when we see the 66% of Americans who are a complete drain on the people around them face consequences for their actions(or inaction). The fact is, it doesnt happen nearly enough and it never changes anything.
Has it ever crossed anyone’s mind, that those of that didn’t vote, was usually because we didn’t approve of either candidate?
I never approved of orange baby, plain and simple.
Kamala was cool though, looking to help people and not deceive them, and I just might have voted for her.
But even though I have no problem with a female president, she would have too many world stage problems with countries and groups that don’t respect women at all.
So, seeing both as a risk, why would I have voted for either? Like, why did Pete Buttiguieg drop out?
That’s the real question, what forces in play made my dude Pete drop out? I sure as hell would have voted for him!
Life is full of decisions that seemingly only have bad options, but one option was clearly drastically worse than the other.
Not voting because you don’t like either candidate despite knowing that one is a crypto fascist with the intention to burn things down is childish and, IMO, means you don’t get to say you’re not responsible for trump.
Your choice in the election is a contributing factor, you don’t get a pass because you sat out. By not voting, you tacitly endorsed trump. It sucks to hear that put in your face, but that’s the same message I had to learn after 2016. I know you won’t like the message here, but I hope you take the lesson to heart and vote for the less awful candidates (assuming we get to have elections again) instead of taking your ball, going home, and letting a Nazi take power.
Christ, do they not teach the trolley problem anymore?
“Has it ever crossed anyone’s mind that I didn’t want the 5 guys on the main track or the 1 guy on the side track to die?”
Duh. That’s the point. You act and feel guilty about a small bad thing, or do nothing and feel guilty and a big bad thing. We got the big bad ending, feel guilty.
Portraying this as a trolley problem is misleading and manipulative.
This is not a trolley problem because:
The closest philosophical or game theory example to an election is a cyclical “Ultimatum Game” between voters and politicians only it’s in the best interest of politicians that people don’t see it that way (because they would be aware that they can punishing politicians in one cycle to get them to do a different split the next one, or specifically in American politics they can Punish the DNC in one cycle for fielding a too rightwing candidate to get them to field a less rightwing candidate the next cycle) so instead their propaganda has pushed for decades this falacy that it’s an “trolley problem” and it’s companion: the idea that people must “chose the lesser evil”.
It’s honestly quite funny and downright sad that you would quote the trolley problem. There’s a reason it’s brought up in ethics courses. The whole point of the trolley problem is that there is no correct solution to it. Different ethical systems arrive at different conclusions. But here you are, going, “fuck how it’s actually used, I’ve decided the trolley problem proves that utilitarian ethics is the correct answer!”
In a utilitarian ethics framework, you would choose to run over the 1 guy or choose to vote for Kamala. In a respect for persons ethical framework, you would take no action and would refuse to vote for either Kamala or Trump.
You’ve completely failed to learn the core lesson of the trolley problem.
What are you talking about? In any ethical framework, the trolley problem presents you with the conflicting guilts of action and inaction. The ethical frameworks don’t do anything but justify whichever guilt you choose.
https://medium.com/@ashwinjitsingh/the-trolly-problem-utilitarianism-vs-deontology-bd624a8e321e
Again, this is the entire point of the trolley problem. No one actually give a shit about the hypothetical trolley. The whole point is to explore how different ethical systems can lead to different outcomes. There is no “right answer” to the trolley problem.
How does that have anything to do with what I said? What I said was
When did I say there was a right answer?
That theory works great in hindsight, but before the election the orange turd was promising to stop wars, not start them.
Sure we all know he’s a liar now, but before the election, going on their campaigns, how could anyone be sure which track would actually have more bodies in the future in that Trolley Problem.
You can’t predict the future, so that’s like presenting the Trolley Problem as if the switch is 10 miles before the tracks split.
Wow… All I can say right now is that I’m continually amazed at the lengths uninformed voters go to justify being willfully ignorant about basic facts of the candidates…
Why would you ever believe that, knowing the people that surround him, his history of aggression instead of diplomacy, or the support of Russia and Israel, two murderous regimes actively killing people in wars they’re waging?
If you didn’t know he was a consummate liar before the election, you chose to be ignorant of his history. Or did you think the man who lied or missed the people Over 30,000 times in his first term had a sudden change in behavior?
By knowing any of his history? Like, we knew who he was associating with. The people who wrote project 2025 were clear on what they wanted to do. We knew from the previous administration that he would target racial minorities and anyone lgbtq+. He showed last administration that he was basically in bed with Israel, so we knew he would be worse for Gaza.
Anyone actually informing themselves about him would know his horrible past and that he would have been more deadly.
A quote comes to mind: “the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior,” and literally everyone paying attention predicted he would start a war of some kind. After all, we knew that in Iran specifically, they were aiming for regime change at the very least. This is an article for less than a year ago, months before the election
…
And for added relevance to this very article
So we definitely knew what was coming. Anyone saying otherwise is grossly uninformed or lying.
Maybe if you had a CCTV monitor showing you the split and the people who were tied to the tracks on the other side.
This is just a desperate excuse to justify your choice based on willful ignorance. You don’t get to shirk the responsibility of your choice or the consequences thereof.
I know you won’t like it, but better to learn the hard lesson now, than repeat it again in the future, right?
What about his first term would convince you Trump wasn’t a liar?
Fuck homie I dunno, I didn’t have television through his first term.
Is online, found Lemmy, popping off as though informed, but only outlet for information is the damned tele. Weak excuse is weak.
Uh, dude’s been a known liar for decades. He made himself known well before 2016, even more so for the next 4 years. We all said this was going to happen, no one else is surprised. You were warned.
Fuck homie I dunno, I didn’t have television through his first term.
I don’t watch TV either. Did you have Internet?
Bruh. Everyone with an ounce of awareness knew he was a liar. Since the fucking 80s this was well known. Known then, known now.
This future was so predictable that it was outilned in back to the mf future.
Believing the campaign of Biff is not an out.
This isn’t some unknowable conundrum. And it’s not the trolley problem when you know damn well that who’s manning the switch will drift both tracks.
Boo. Boo this man.
What a wonderful response, objecting against someone that would have actually voted if Pete would have stayed in the running.
I may not have voted, but I know for a fact I would never vote for the diaper.
Like, why is it always a heads/tails coin decision?
And what the fuck is up with the Electoral College?
By not voting at all, you cemented Trump’s victory.
You don’t get to say “well I wanted it to be different” now.
Do better next time. Do something next time.
No, I didn’t cement any victory, I literally said I didn’t vote. The voters cemented his victory, not me.
You are a voter and contributed accordingly.
What skin would it have taken for you to just pull the lever for kamala?
Maybe youre saving it for “the one”
I, like most Americans, know we only get one vote! Gotta save it for that perfect candidate!
/S obv
You gotta get in the building first. Back in 2016, me and a friend went to vote. I would have voted Vermin Supreme (legit candidate no less), and my buddy planned on writing in Batman.
We stood in line for around 2 hours. For about the last half hour of waiting it was raining. Around half of everyone knew the weather forecast and had an umbrella, including us.
They closed the voting place (library) down at 8pm sharp, and the cops told everyone in line to go home. We were probably 150~200 people back in line.
We all waited that long, even in the fucking rain, only to be ordered to leave?!
If it matters (which it probably does), our state doesn’t have early voting, you get one day to do it and that’s it.
Wait 2 goddamn hours, partly in the rain, only to get shut down with around 200 people or so waiting to vote?!
Sooo… I’ve never had a chance to see the inside of a voting facility. Not for lack of trying though.
Is that what happened in 2024 as well?
Eh, a Trump scenario was inevitable unless people grew balls and voted for someone like Vermin Supreme. You have to be the first one to vote third party.
“I didn’t like either, so I did nothing” is such a bullshit excuse…
Like it or not, we have a two party system and this was the worst possible time for anyone to decide to do nothing. Non-voters are just as complicit in what’s going on now because they chose to do fuck all when it actually mattered… I hope the righteous objection through inaction was worth it, because people are dying as a result now.
The problem with this line of thinking is that it encourages short-term rather than long-term thinking.
From a purely utilitarian perspective, the absolute good to the absolute greatest number of people - we would have been better off if Trump won in 2020. He would have had another lame duck term in a continuation of an administration where he had a lot of restraining voices in his cabinet. He wouldn’t have had the four years to regroup and come back with an entirely different organizational structure.
A Biden win in 2020 guaranteed a Trump win in 2024. It was eminently predictable and it was widely predicted. Biden wasn’t going to do anything to address the actual causes for Trump winning. Biden was only ever going to be a temporary speed bump to fascism. He simply lacked the character to properly confront a fascist movement. He’s not morally capable of it.
Even if you stick to a purely utilitarian framework, even if you believe that harm minimization is all that mattes, sometimes voting for the lesser of two evils is the option that’s going to get more people killed.
Read my other comment, I tried in 2016, definitely wasn’t going to vote for orange. I never got to see the inside of the voting place.
After waiting around 2 hours, they shut down and cops ordered everyone remaining in line to leave at 8pm. There were probably around 200 people outside still waiting to vote…
https://lemmy.world/comment/17812288
You tried once, so you said fuck it this time…
You know mail-in, absentee, and provisional ballots are a thing, right?
Also, if you’re in line to vote and the polling place is set to close, you still have the right to cast your ballot, no matter how long it takes. They can turn new people away, but they can’t just close up and send people home if they’ve been waiting. If you were told to leave, those cops violated the law. And if they absolutely had to close, they’re required to give out provisional ballots. Know your rights dude.
Okay, good to know. Maybe I can sue the library and the cops and get to cast my 2016 vote, wouldn’t that be fucking nice if there was a time machine?
Like I said, we were in a line of probably around 200 people, and we were probably in place about 150 back towards the end of the line.
Everyone else ahead of us followed the orders first and left for their vehicles, we were towards the back of the line and were amongst the last to find out they closed as the cops ordered everyone to leave.
What the fuck you expect me to do, run around the block to get to the library door and beat on it? Get tackled and shot by cops?
You think I’m fucking stupid? If the 150 people ahead of me are complying with the cops, you think I’m gonna be the idiot to catch a bullet?
I think less of everyone involved, yes… 150-200 people straight up abandoned their legally guaranteed rights…
However, that’s getting off track…
My disappointment is with people’s inaction during THIS election. The one between a reasonably mid candidate and an absolute garbage dump of a felonious excuse for a human being.
I don’t care. You did this.
Drag every dumb American leftist that was here during the election claiming this exact thing, or that Harris’ support of Israel was too much and Trump wouldn’t do the same. Collaborationists one and all. May as well have given the order today.
You live with that now. And as it continues to get worse I sure hope someone in your life slaps the self-serving excuses right out of you so it dawns on you, because you will have to stew in this the rest of your life.
You are the enemy, just as much as the average noncommital fascist was in the mid-20th century. You are a cautionary tale for some kid studying history in a century, assuming we get to have kids studying history in a century despite your best attempts.
You sound like a toxic person. I am not your enemy, I am just an individual.
Oh, no, you’re not.
You’re a speck of the nameless hordes in a rogue superpower. A collaborationist in a fascist nuclear state.
You have zero relevance as an individual. You are, fundamentally, just a small part of a big problem.
I have no obligation to care about your “individuality”. I care about your victims. Which exist. You have real, human victims now. And I really hope if you’re being honest about your self-righteous denials throughout this thread, that it at least triggers some self-awareness about that.
There is something seriously wrong with you.
Plenty. But I voted for a government that wouldn’t do this, and they narrowly won, so I have that going for me. What’s your excuse?
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So when the Padres got knocked out of the World Series last year by the Dodgers I was pissed. I didn’t want to put my support behind a team I didn’t love heart and soul. I felt comfortable doing that because it was a fucking sport trophy that happens every year and not who decided who held the office of the fucking President of the United States. You’re getting downvoted because you’re treating those two scenarios as exactly the same.
I voted for Kamala Harris. Never liked that orange fuck.
A third did not vote for him. The popular vote was something like 51 to 48, which is insanely close. And a record number of people didn’t even vote.
It’s more like 1/6 voted for the asshole, and then the dems gave up the win before the night even ended.
Not voting was tacitly supporting Trump.
A good chunk of Kamala’s platform was also tacitly supporting Trump.
Anything to justify your bad decisions…
Anybody who “didn’t even vote” is responsible for this. At least the 1/6 are trying to hide their guilt behind excuses. Eff all fascists, of course, but hey, at least that subsegment of them aren’t lying to themselves about it.
Okay I don’t think bombing Iran is a partisan issue in America. It’s more like a third supports this, half doesn’t care enough to act and the remaining sixth is too busy convincing itself that genocide is good if it’s the lesser evil. The guilt for this crosses party lines by a fair bit. I mean hell, the only vocal opposition to this is coming from people like MTG and Tucker Carlson, not anyone from the Dem political establishment.
That’s not relevant. The fact is this entire situation is developing this way because Trump is both extremely willing to go along with Israel and terrified of looking weak.
That he would give Bibi everything he wanted and make the situation worse was both known from his actions last time and a common warning to “the Dems are just as bad” delusional morons during the campaign, to their protests.
And now here we are. Delusional morons are still out there, still in denial and still entirely wrong.
Okay here’s the thing: If the Dem leadership had any problem at all with the situation in Gaza or Iran, they would’ve said something about it. It’s the evil Trump doing it, yet there’s not a goddamn peep from the Schumers and Pelosis of the party about the illegal and immoral war Trump is trying to start. The only conclusion one can make from this is that they’re okay with it, so they’d do similar if not the exact same things if Netanyahu asked nicely. The escalations we’ve seen since the January ceasefire are much better understood in terms of fascist progression and Netanyahu clinging to power.
Because genocide Joe didn’t give him everything he wanted? I’ve seen Biden parrot the 40 dead babies nonsense, don’t try to gaslight me into believing he wasn’t Netanyahu’s bitch.
Hey, it would be great to be in a world where we can test that hypothesis.
But you made it not that world by electing this particular turd. So what we know for sure is this: you didn’t make it better.
So it’s your fault.
So you don’t get to go “boo hoo the other guy was Israel’s bitch, too”. Your self-righteous leftist cosplay may give your denial room to pretend you didn’t make it worse (you did), but now we know for a fact you didn’t help.
When the rest of reality dawns on you feel free to poke me again. In the meantime, deal with whatever amount of it your psyche can parse in your own time.
Resorting to guesses and assumptions so you don’t have to interact with my argument, I see. Well sorry to rain on your parade but, since I’m a non-American who lives on the other side of the world, I had exactly zero role in electing your turd. Now will you stop Trumpwashing your team’s atrocities or are you still digging your head in the sand?
“My team”? What team would that be? Cause my elected officials, that I voted for, are very much in the “arrest Netanyahu for genocide” camp, with my full support.
If you’re not American my claims don’t apply to you (unless you were a non-American peddling anti-Harris online propaganda during the elections, and then you’re as much to blame as the rest of the idiots that did this).
Yes, I was peddling completely non-factual anti-Harris online propaganda about Democrats doing bad things, and you still haven’t engaged with my point.
Bombing Iran and letting Israel dictate American foreign policy are two things with strong bipartisan support.
Hillary Clinton campaigned in 2008 on the promise to bomb Iran. Biden couldnt even bring it over himself to enforce a demand for Israel to no starve Gaza to death and let Netanyahu humiliate him in public multiple times. And Biden/Clintons are the ultimate Democrats establishment.
Very clear explanation for xenophobia, no notes.
E: won’t support bigots no matter what. Sorry, not sorry at all.
A lot of people didn’t vote for him. A lot of people didn’t vote for democrat either. A growing number of people are voting for third parties now. Not enough to sway the vote, but enough to make a statement.
I think, in my lifetime, we will see a third party finally elected. The leading parties just aren’t cutting it anymore.
Yeah, the 3rd party voters are complicit in Trump’s actions, as are those who didn’t vote in protest.
When one candidate straight up says they’ll be a dictator on day one, anything but voting against them is supporting their actions.
Say it louder for those in the back plugging their ears and saying both sides are the same.
It’s also hard to leave. Many of us would leave if we had the means. Even for those who wish to stay and fight the blossoming authoritarianism must wage a nearly hopeless battle against powerful disinformation machines.
Yeah, no offense, but nobody cares about how you cope or whether you leave. This isn’t about you.
We’re all pretty ok with you guys stewing in your own fascist soup. You made that bed. The concerning part is how it’s affecting everybody else. If this was entirely a you problem I would be much less worried.
This isn’t a US problem, and your nation is just as vulnerable to this.
It is.
But I’m not making it worse and we’ve staved it off so far.
So I will keep trying to not make it worse.
Which American leftist cosplayers spewing self-defeating, self-righteous maximalist crap to get Trump elected can’t say.
Trust me, I would much rather be dealing with their self-righteous crap than with Trump. But since we’re here, and since we tried to tell them, at least I can pop up to go “told you so” before I go back to blocking Americans and their nonsense from my feeds and try to survive their ongoing spiraling.
Exactly. You know how many countries US trans people can get asylum in? Zero. None. Zilch. There is not a country on Earth where a trans person in the US could qualify for asylum, even considering the vast rollback of trans rights currently underway. And if a member of a targeted minority group can’t get asylum status, then forget about nearly anyone else.