Does a criminal arrest and conviction not matter to anyone before ganging up to take someones life?
You would think an allegation serious enough to take someone’s life would be at least charged by some law enforcement agency, many of these crimes require they are reported by law, and a mandatory arrest must happen if it is reported. There should be no way for anyone to be free, needing to be hunted, without a criminal history. No distinction is made between someone with a criminal history and someone without, the allegation has become enough to destroy reputations, careers and lives. History is full of situations where an other type of label and class with no rights or due process is created. Then it is applied to people as needed to eliminate them. With LGBT stuff specifically, you see the lines between these labels being blurred. Even in Russia they have blurred the lines between LGBT, child abuse, domestic terrorism and dangers to national security. It doesn’t take much imagination to see it be applied in the U.S. QAnon was proof that anyone can be labelled by a large number of people with real actions taken to harm them, without any kind of formal process or charges. Just rumors that lead to vigilantes.
At some point, there is no difference between that, Daniel Penny, or Luigi Manigone. From every side, we all agree that summary executions are acceptable. The end result of this is a break down of civil society as the justifications for extrajudicial murder expand to include as many things as necessary… Even if you take something like the damage Kendrick Lamar did to Drake’s career and reputation, I believe his legal defense over defamation is that it was meant as a joke. How many people would consider using these methods if they saw Drake? A lot of time has passed since that song was released, where are the criminal charges to match the damage done to him?
There’s one more angle to this - apart from the raise in vigilante violence and messing up with police operations which both are very valid.
Just as we stopped getting TV feeds constantly equating pedophiles to child molesters, those guys stepped in to fill the void.
Pedophiles are not inherently child molesters. This kind of equation is not only wrong, it also adds to promoting dangerous behaviors among them.
Plenty of pedophiles will never abuse a single child, knowing full well it is dangerous and harmful for minors to be engaged in such relationships. However, the more we equate pedophiles to predators, the more people, especially in the emotionally vulnerable groups like teen pedophiles, will actually accept themselves in this role. Among those who stands against this anyway, plenty will become suicidal, not seeing an option to live a non-offending life.
Current methods of therapy aimed at reducing child abuse rates go very strongly on this - pedophiles should face message of them not being inherently dangerous, not the message of them being an immediate and imminent danger. Not only this is scientifically correct, it is actually useful in making these people safer for others.
Pedo accusations don’t come from concerns for kids but from enpowerement to do violence and the ability to righteously attack.
This inversion from concern for others to desire to cause harm through paranoia derived justifications is becoming a real problem.
If someone steps in to stop them attacking the innocent they will claim those people are defending pedos.
We’re going to have the stupidest of wars on our hands.
One could call them the “Stupid Wars”
“Stupid wars need the MOST attention.”
This.
Plus it’s self defeating. Too often when they find real predators, the evidence is tainted by the way it was collected by idiots who have no idea what they’re doing.
Yea, all of that is not admissible in court too. And they often end up attacking innocent people, additionally it labels them a pedo so, they instantly get fired, lose their wives, children, friends,etc
Eyup, I remember this one guy this dude found who was insanely guilty. Was not only in a “relationship” with a child, but was trying to get him to do cocaine.
The pedo-hunter who was onto him decided the best thing to do wasn’t to call the cops, but to harass him in a target and make a scene. So much so that the Target staff thought the hunter, not the pedo, was the criminal.
Police were called and they wound up arresting the pedo upon realizing the situation, but due to the harassment, the way the evidence was collected, and all that…
The only thing they could get him on was a traffic violation when the pedo was driving away from the Target.
My advice for people is this - Don’t be a pedo-hunter, while it is noble that you wanna fight back against the cruelty of the world… The truth is you’re going to wind up doing more harm than good unless you know EXACTLY what you’re doing. If you let your anger control how you do investigations, you’re not that much different from the killer cops that butcher the innocent.
Especially since sex crimes are ones where the mere accusation is enough to ruin people’s lives. I should know, I was nearly expelled at my Community College because a guidance consular blanket accused me of attacking a woman at her car. It was luck, a phone call to her boss, playing the autism card, and calling the bluff… asking her to prove the attack, provide witnesses, show me the police report, and she basically dropped everything and apologized when she couldn’t. And I knew she couldn’t, because I do not attack people, Hell, I have the muscle mass of Melvin Junko BEFORE he became the Toxic Avenger, even if I wanted to I’d just get my ass beat.
Later she tried it again over me using a female restroom as a transwoman, thankfully this was after Obama amended Title IX to cover transpeole so I once again had an Uno Reverse card. So I just got a call from her boss telling me to use whatever restroom I wanted and to ignore her.
I don’t know what’s wrong with that person or why she was so hellbent on getting me kicked out of school, but… I think of her a lot, not only because she traumatized me with her false accusations, but because thanks to her, I do know that false accusations do indeed happen, and sometimes they come from powerful people.
i forgot to mention some sites publically will list people who have exposed themselves, or pedos, i assume its a law that allows that, and thats how they find it. i happened to stumble a forum for specific cities, and they have a "pedo-map, like google map destinations.
There’s a reason an insane number of the people who publicly attack pedophillia are in fact pedophiles.
That too, but also some have been not to be pedos, I doubt these influencers will reveal the ones they attacked are not one,.bum
I assumed it was because they are so sloppy, they use it in any disagreement “you’re either with us or you’re a pedophile !” much in the same way we often here “don’t call everyone a Nazi” Do we see many Nazi calling each other Nazi in anger and in a derogatory manner ?
It’s basically the same motivation as people who have a gun and are itching for the apocalypse so they can loose the safeties.
Even saying that it’s righteous violence is ascribing positive motivations that may not exist. They’re just looking for someone to attack, and an alleged paedophile is a socially acceptable target to unleash that violence on.
We’re going to have the stupidest of wars on our hands.
Finally, my decades of stupid training will pay off!
Lots of people in the comments are failing to see the issue with this, so allow me to illustrate. Fair warning, this will not be an easy read.
So let’s imagine you really hate trans people, gay people, and liberals. Unfortunately for you, none of these are crimes (yet), so you can’t just go around assaulting and killing these people indiscriminately, as much as you’d like to. So what are you going to do?
Well, the best hate campaigns start with a shared enemy, and nobody is more hated than a child predator. Best of all, you can do pretty much whatever you want to them with no recourse. What are they going to do, call the police? Nobody is going to speak out against what you’re doing, because if they do, you can just say that if they don’t support you, then they must be defending child predators!
Now that we have a precedent for violence, it’s time to expand our scope a bit. Since hunting pedophiles is a-ok, now you just need to label anyone you don’t like a pedophile. You could say gay and trans people are pedophiles and groomers. And again, if anyone opposes you, just call them a groomer too!
But maybe that’s not enough for you. No, you want to make sure that you can target anyone who disagrees with you. Well good news, because you can just join a group of people who believe that anyone who dislikes Donald Trump is a deep state pedophile. You don’t even need evidence anymore, and there’s a good chance the cops will be on your side! Happy hunting!
Seriously though, this vigilante “justice” should not be celebrated. Yes, we need to take child predators off the streets, but there is a process for that. Denying anyone due process opens the door to denying it to everyone.
These type of discussions remind me of a case in Minnesota where a neighbor framed their neighbor by hacking their wifi and planting child pornography.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/man-gets-18-yrs-for-wifi-hack-child-porn-frame/
I wish that article had more information on how the framed person proved their innocence. It’s probably boring but he must have felt like he was taking crazy pills when he was framed.
Here is more info:
“Barry Ardolf, a Minnesota hacker prosecutors described as a ‘depraved criminal,’ has been handed an 18-year prison term for unleashing a vendetta of cyberterror that turned his neighbors’ lives into a living nightmare. Ardolf hacked into his next-door neighbors’ Wi-Fi network and used it to try and frame them for child pornography, sexual harassment, various kinds of professional misconduct, and to send threatening e-mail to politicians, including Vice President Joe Biden. The bizarre tale began in 2009 when Matt and Bethany Kostolnik moved into the house next door to Ardolf. On their first day at their new home, the Kostolnik’s then-4-year-old son wandered near Ardolf’s house. While carrying him back next door, Ardolf allegedly kissed the boy on the lips. ‘We’ve just moved next door to a pedophile,’ Mrs. Kostolnik told her husband. The couple reported Ardolf to the police, angering their creepy new neighbor (PDF). ‘I decided to “get even” by launching computer attacks against him,’ said Ardolf, who downloaded Wi-Fi hacking software and spent two weeks cracking the Kostolnik’s WEP encryption. Then he used their own Wi-Fi network to create a fake MySpace page for the husband, where he posted a picture of a pubescent girl having sex with two young boys. Ardolf turned down a 2-year plea agreement last year to charges related to the Biden e-mail. After that, the authorities piled on more charges, including identity theft and two kiddie-porn accusations carrying lifetime sex-offender registration requirements.”
https://it.slashdot.org/story/11/07/13/0445224/the-wi-fi-hacking-neighbor-from-hell
Oh wow, thanks!
It was also an episode of CSI Miami, where a dude targeted “pedo” by planting a virus that quickly put CPnon the computer. Since the original guy did this he was arrested for Distribution of CP and was responsible for the murder by inciting a mod to attack him. The pedo that got unintentionally sent CP was then targeted by a mob, and murdered.
I’d say it’s also a problem that the sort of people who use the Internet to find people to beat up are idiots, so even if they aren’t going out of their way to victimize minorities, odds are they’ll just beat up some random person.
Don’t they already do that? Them getting attacked isn’t getting in a court conviction anytime soon, because it will be disregarded evidence, and it was done with prejudice too
Do people read this and fail to realize that the “calling everyone I disagree with is a Nazi” rhetoric is the exact same thing? Yes, they do
Do people read this and fail to realize that the “calling everyone I disagree with is a Nazi” rhetoric is the exact same thing?
Like how Elon can do a full Nazi salute multiple times but then throw out some rhetoric about how “they call everyone Nazis” and everyone just buys it?
Yeah I can see how they’re similar.
And his whole family line supports Nazism
I don’t think that’s true. Half of his kids have disowned him. He has a trans child he says was “killed by wokeness” who hates his guts.
Yeah, got to go up the line of ancestry I guess to find all his nazi supporting family.
Who are you targeting with that message? Because what’s going on with the current US admin is straight out of the nazi playbook.
It feels like you are trying to get validation for your position.
But if you saw where this was going and said it too early, this perspective means you’re responsible for people not taking you seriously now!
The Nazis were fascists that looked to create a 1000 year reich and believed the destiny was to birth the master race. Trump et al are not doing this which means they are a different kind of fascist than Nazis. That doesn’t make it better much like being shot with a .308 instead of a .44 caliber round isn’t “better” it just makes it a different kind of harm.
I’d say that the nazi salute on live tv sealed the deal.
If it looks like a Nazi and squeak like a Nazi, it’s a fucking Nazi.
From my reply to another
"Ok? How does that change my statement that they are a different kind of fascist? Keep in mind my point is entirely focused on the ideology part of the political ideology whereas you are talking about a salute. How does an arm motion change the policy goals which aren’t the same as what Nazis support? What policy goal can you derive from an arm motion to begin with?
They are still evil they are just a different kind of evil. Not all fascists are nazis. The fact that one guy did a nazi salute twice doesn’t change project 2025 into something that Nazis would support."
Taxonomy.
- A cat is [animal]
- A dog is an [animal]
The nazi’s did such a good job of distinguishing themselves they created their own (colloquial) taxonomic branch.
So [nazi] could be considered a parent grouping of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party and also potentially a parent grouping for the republicans.
I think they key here is separating the nazi party from the [nazi] category
As you pointed out all [nazi]'s are [fascist]'s but not all [fascist]'s are [nazi]'s
- National Socialist German Workers’ Party were [nazi]'s
- The American Republican Party are subjectively showing enough similarities (both in type and progression) that they get the provisional label of [nazi] as it’s the closest existing definition.
Might turn out that they don’t quite fall in the same branch, might turn out they do. Until then [nazi] is an easy shortcut for describing the types of behaviour displayed.
Even if they were just a direct descendent ( taxonomically ) rather than a sibling of the original nazi party there would still be an argument to claim they were nazi’s
Like :
- animal -> mammal -> cat
- nazi -> nazi party -> republican
Come back in a few years and you’ll probably get your definitive answer either way.
You don’t have to agree with any of that of course, but it does demonstrate how someone might have an opposing opinion to your own.
They are literally zeig-heiling.
Ok? How does that change my statement that they are a different kind of fascist? Keep in mind my point is entirely focused on the ideology part of the political ideology whereas you are talking about a salute. How does an arm motion change the policy goals which aren’t the same as what Nazis support? What policy goal can you derive from an arm motion to begin with?
They are still evil they are just a different kind of evil. Not all fascists are nazis. The fact that one guy did a nazi salute twice doesn’t change project 2025,
That’s an extremely narrow point that isn’t worth bothering with, because nobody is confused about what you mean when you call them “nazis”.
Also it’s not one guy doing a zeig heil, it’s become a trend amongst them now. They have invited the comparison openly, and anybody getting all pissy about “you just call everything you don’t like nazi” is just a crybully who’s deliberately wasting your time. At this point anybody turned off of your cause by your use of the word “nazi” isn’t your ally in the first place.
Like sure they’re not exactly the same as the NSDAP, but the category still applies, and it’s not worth anybody’s time splitting hairs over the exact nature of the type of fascism they have, because “nazi” does the job and again, nobody is confused by it, because the original nazis are all resting in piss.
Do you have any argument as to why this matters, in any way, at all?
Do you have any argument as to why this matters, in any way, at all?
the majority of the population doesn’t identify this as being nazism. If you are looking to get more people backing your cause you cannot alienate them by appearing to be reactionary or uneducated.
See the problem is people see the word “Nazi” and (for some convenient reason) think people are literally talking about a card carrying member of the NSDAP, which obviously doesn’t exist after 1945.
Substitute “fascist authoritarian” for “Nazi” in more modern contexts and it makes more sense.
Are you accusing me of being alarmist after I provided sources for the things that are actually going on?
This is part of the reason why casual accusations of pedophilia have always disturbed me. Because it can lead even people who in most other circumstances would be considered pro-justice and pro-human rights into mini-Mengeles.
And I’ve seen people just throw out the accusation without even prompt or justification, just because they hate somebody (maybe for other good reasons) and want to see if it sticks. It’s fucked up.
Then there’s other cases like that one where that 18-year-old got jumped for being baited into going on a date with another 18-year-old, while under the impression that she was… at least 18. A couple of people posted about that already.
Yeah, I got accusations thrown at me after letting a trans lady crash at my place when she came out and her ex-wife kicked her out of the house. Everybody was an adult, but the ex-wife found a friend in the TERFs, and they think trans rights is pedo apologism.
I got molested by my babysitter when I was 5, and it was incredibly infuriating to hear people say it was the same as a fucking divorce.
Disgusting.
Sadly as a transwoman I have heard “You should have left the kids alone!” From ex-friends who were Pro-Trans until it became “Support transpeople or support Trump”, then suddenly every dirty lie they knew not to believe became truth.
I was disgusted, a former ally suddenly and without evidence starting seeing his many transfriends as paedos
Remember when Musk did it si callously
He definitely has some skeletons in his closet, he’s got to have done something
shit gonna morph into persecuting queer people real quick.
And then when it’s pointed out a bunch of mfs are gonna say. “Why are you AFRAID?? WhAt aN odd tHinG to sAy!! they’re only going after bad people!”
like shit brother. right on brother. Im sorry. I guess all those 1920’s lynch mobs were only going after criminals too then 🤷♂️. Matter of fact I bet no innocent people were hurt, and it wasn’t because of the color of their skin at all. Only criminals! /s
They’ve never heard of the railroad strikes of 1922 and call people free loaders for striking.
I have heard people saying panto should be 18+ because it has a man dressed as a woman. Your ideology is a fucking joke.
In Austria the ‘pedophile hunters’ targeted gay men who were not pedophiles. If ‘pedophile hunters’ would actually care about their cause, they would storm the next church…
This is obviously where this is going and it’s a big part why they’re obsessed with labeling people “groomers.”
The Church actually has a lower rate of child abuse than public schools…
Great. Just dump anyone you dislike as a “pedophile” and then it’s a free for all.
especially when you have people like elon musk calling people they don’t like paedophiles and winning defamation suits over it by claiming he calls everyone paedophiles.
Hmm, I seem to recall Trump being a pedophile.
They don’t actually care about pedophiles; a lot of them are pedophiles
Yes.
When AI can create any image or video based on another person with their perfect face and voice, besides the scams that will keep increasing, the other great value of the tech is that we going to be able to create any proof and footage we want to incriminate whoever we wish.
They are already doing that shit.
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Heh seems to me that these pedophile hunters are just violent hateful people who found a way to make their hate and violence appear righteous.
There should be no tolerance for vigilante justice in a civilized society.
Ah that’s the thing, we’re not civilized
We’re about to have roving gang of Nazi vs pedos! Just attacking each other like crime gangs in the streets.
This is what about when young people have no future.
We’re definately less civilized than we used to be but there’s still some degree of civility.
“Where [is] evil? It’s that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on its side.”
― Kurt Vonnegut, Mother NightWhere is this civilized society at, in the US?
More democratic areas I’d say.
A quick word to anyone seeing this and thinking “oh that’s fine”, look into the Snowtown Massacres". That’s what it looks like when this kind of thing actually happens. Life isn’t a Tarantino film, those who accomplish their aims violently are generally very dumb.
Hi everyone, just a friendly reminder that guns are legal in the United States for the time being.
I’d make a guess they’re getting violent because the legal system can’t do anything with their compromised evidence. Instead of realizing they’re not the people qualified to do this work, they’re just doubling down and “handling it themselves.”
They’re getting more violent because they’re getting more views when they get violent.
I don’t know how it works in the US, and it’s certainly not perfect, but if you bring “compromised” evidences of actual child abuse, you can be sure it’ll trigger some extensive investigation. Sometimes, this leads to nothing. Sometimes, the “evidences” were not really evidence, but more of a hunch. Sometimes, it leads to actual consequences.
One issue with such a vigilante system is that sometimes, you’re wrong. That’s why due process is a thing. But the “this evidence was collected illegally, so we won’t even look up the guy” thing isn’t really a thing, as long as the evidence is better than “I’m sure of it”.
They’re experiencing positive re-enforcement when they get violent with the people they’ve intrapped. They’re getting more violent because they want more of the positive online feedback they’ve been getting.
There is no lofty thought process about justice.
Same thing with the 1A auditors, aka “frauditors”.
Well honestly it seems they may be the most qualified to do this work at this point then
You got down voted but all we need to check is how catholic church has been given a blank check for what they do…
Fuck them. I won’t cry when pedo priest is given justice.
This clown regime think they can just put something like that under the rug 🤡
Except these guys never go after the Catholic Church
And that’s the real crime here and likely indicative of their bad faith behavior
Oh hey, it’s “won’t somebody please think of the children?” taken to the streets for internet clout! Absolutely nothing wrong can happen there! /s
Republicans and Church leaders everywhere are terrified.
Beating up pedophiles sounds great, so does beating up rapists and murderers, but remember you can be called a pedophile for leaning in close to a kid in a photo. “B-but in this case it really WAS a bad guy” doesn’t justify mob violence. I don’t want my safety to depend on the right people being in a particular mob on a Thursday.
Genuinely surprised and relived by the amount of common sense in this comment thread, that’s all I have to say
Here and the New York Times comments are both pretty great. This type of behavior is just plain old indefensible even when the victims aren’t sympathetic. We also know that it’s not going to stay limited to just reprehensible people
