Nope, no you wouldn’t. If you want to see the example of unmoderated community, go to whatever new 4chan incarnation is. You will see child pornography, nazis recruiting children with badly fried memes, dead people, parts of dead people, characters from popular japaneese cartons involved in the depraved shit, and spam, so much spam, so much spam you couldn’t even believe this much spam is possible.
Aside from the CP, that is how it was back in the day and how it should be. And no it wasn’t all spam. It’s just that the spam was obvious. Today though the spam is the Internet. Go look at marvel or any sub Reddit, the product are the people, the spam is the site itself being sold to companies. We need freedom to post unsavory things so that these companies no longer want to risk selling their product between videos of jelly arms and someone training their dog to do Nazi salutes. We need to post that stuff in protest to get back to what we were
Also, “Aside from the CP” doesn’t exist. In your unmoderated utopia you can’t just put this aside as if it doesn’t exist, you have to deal with it. Or be OK with it, like you’re OK with everything else.
You will see child pornography, nazis recruiting children with badly fried memes, dead people, parts of dead people, characters from popular japaneese cartons involved in the depraved shit, and spam
Aside from the CP, that is how it was back in the day and how it should be.
So you’re okay with nazis recruiting children with badly fried memes, dead people, parts of dead people, characters from popular japaneese cartons involved in the depraved shit, and spam?
Yea I don’t care. I lived it. Something about that environment also creates great moments. Unlike today. Plus things have never been worse and all we have is constant moderation. For every “good moderator” the bad ones have caused echo chambers and rifts that have created extremism. The open exposure to the worst of humanity was a governer more than a catalyst
I disagree you’re looking at it with Rose tinted glasses. The problem with mods is that it is almost paradoxical a good mod is barely seen keeping the community well oiled and functional. Almost always a mod gets known is because of a fuckup.
There must be a balance between the freedom to post anything and keeping the line of the community. Is so frigging hard I don’t blame ppl for hating modwork.
The spam isn’t just for things that are savory. The spam can be for unsavory things, propagandizing, griefing, or advertising outright illegal things.
I don’t want to have to wade through a shit ton of nazi bullshit or ads for whatever is the silk road replacement nowadays in order to take a beat after work to read shitposts. Dealing with inane stupidity shouldn’t be the bar for what people have to put up with to interact with each other.
You know why it wasn’t like that everywhere? Because some places had good moderation. It was like that since the days of FIDO. If there was a good community, it was good because they didn’t allow bad shit to exist in their community.
If you think spez invented moderators to sell you coca cola, or whatever, you either don’t know how shit works, or do and just secretly want to wipe treads with guro.
Because not as many people were on the internet, the technological and social landscape is completely different today compared to twenty years ago.
Moderation has also pretty much always been part of the internet in some degree, I don’t believe that the internet being enshittified has nearly as much to do with the presence of moderation, good or bad, as it does with fundamental problems with the constant monetization inherent in capitalism and the adaption of social media influence and recruitment strategies by the far right.
Holy shit, I actually totally agree on this. Like I’ve thought about this often and come to the same conclusion. It should be something where people can view what is being removed if they wish.
One of my biggest concerns with moderation is that moderator teams eventually attract people trying to conceal things and reducing what the spirit of the internet originally stood for.
Like having a company try to erase any bad stories about it’s products by controlling all the spaces we could talk about that product.
But if we can all still choose to see what is removed it gives us a big window into what moderation teams are manipulating things and which are honest teams.
Join nostr. Is a decentralized social network where no one can stop you from saying what ever you want.
I’ve not seen any kind of porn (adult or child). No gore.
What you do get is all the anarchist liberals, trump supporters, homophobes, racists, and WAY TOO MANY conversations about bitcoin (I recommend adding a filter to remove any posts that mention bitcoin just to actually find something different)
It is not. Nostr is based on public key cryptography. A lot of features are linked with a layber on top of bitcoin (lightning, which by my understanding makes absolutely no sense), but its nowhere near required
Oh shit I’ll check that out. Might be what I’m looking for. I’m so tired of modern digital spaces. Reddit really opened my eyes to what it all eventually becomes. It’s all about clearing the space for political ads, marketing and manipulations instead of by regular people for regular people. And it’s all clear cut by moderators who think they’re doing a good job.
I’ve been an ass to assholes on nostr and wouldn’t want that linked up to my Lemmy account. So if you want someone to interact with or test things, I can generate a new account
Some moderation teams are reasonable enough, they help. Others get off on deleting and reporting things they don’t like. Unmoderated internet is scary.
Yes, we do actually. Not zero, unfortunately, those fuckers are like mold, always returning for some reason. Like, the second they decreased moderation on X The Everything App Formerly Known As Twitter, it got overrun with Nazis.
Because they run a community or group, or are trusted members to do so. I’m a mod in a 3d printing telegram group. We had to make the member listed private because every week everyone was getting DM scam attempts. The group is open, so every once in a while, a scam account enters and leaves a message, which is quickly deleted by one of us
The problem is that if you actually have no or insufficient moderation then people just start using the site to post child pornography. And then you visiting what used to be a site you like becomes basically illegal and dangerous, not to mention potentially traumatizing. I’m not exaggerating, there was a small game fan forum site I used to love along with many others, but someone caught on to the fact it was run by just one guy and kept signing up with fake accounts and posting child porn or links to it. Luckily I had already fallen off using the site by then, but one of my Internet friends who still visited it kept me updated on the drama. First everyone normal stopped visiting. Then it eventually got so bad the owner had to shut down the site.
People lack imagination when it comes to what will happen with no moderation. It quickly becomes horrible.
So yea that’s true. But I think there is a big gap between allowing CP vs banning users because the comments are not inline with marvel family entertainment corporation ethos
Absolutely there is, but unfortunately the solution to CP is having moderators who can delete content, and that alone is enough to cause all the problems with moderators. It seems largely intractable to me. The only thing I could see maybe working is some system where moderators can be removed by community vote, but then you rely on systems preventing fake accounts from being created or account age to stop those votes from being botted, etc… I just don’t see how to technically solve the problem of moderators having power to delete things. It’s the classic issue of who watches the watchmen. Humanity has never had a great solution to this.
I love when it’s clearly something like a Marvel or Disney PR team running a place and it turns into the most nail on chalk board grating questions like “if you had to wear a super Heroes costume to prom which one would it be” and all the top comments are bots talking about the costumes from the latest movie coming out.
Like what the fuck happened to the Internet. I just get so sad thinking how kids are growing up with this nonsense but to them it’s totally normal and I’m 10 years it’ll get worse and they’ll hate it but that level of how bad it’ll get will just continue to snowball.
We had something. Nobody will ever understand what it was we had
It seems to me that you don’t hate moderators, you hate that they are necessary nowadays. If so, i’m right there with ya. The web used to be a much more magical place
Moderators have destroyed the Internet. I would rather have to deal with the idiots online than a moderator.
What the fuck my guy you’re not serious, you have to be intolerant of intolerance and a lot of intolerant people visit unmoderated boards
Nope, no you wouldn’t. If you want to see the example of unmoderated community, go to whatever new 4chan incarnation is. You will see child pornography, nazis recruiting children with badly fried memes, dead people, parts of dead people, characters from popular japaneese cartons involved in the depraved shit, and spam, so much spam, so much spam you couldn’t even believe this much spam is possible.
There was a decentralized Reddit clone someone posted recently and I was excited to check it out. Sure enough, racist shit.
Aside from the CP, that is how it was back in the day and how it should be. And no it wasn’t all spam. It’s just that the spam was obvious. Today though the spam is the Internet. Go look at marvel or any sub Reddit, the product are the people, the spam is the site itself being sold to companies. We need freedom to post unsavory things so that these companies no longer want to risk selling their product between videos of jelly arms and someone training their dog to do Nazi salutes. We need to post that stuff in protest to get back to what we were
Also, “Aside from the CP” doesn’t exist. In your unmoderated utopia you can’t just put this aside as if it doesn’t exist, you have to deal with it. Or be OK with it, like you’re OK with everything else.
So you’re okay with nazis recruiting children with badly fried memes, dead people, parts of dead people, characters from popular japaneese cartons involved in the depraved shit, and spam?
Yea I don’t care. I lived it. Something about that environment also creates great moments. Unlike today. Plus things have never been worse and all we have is constant moderation. For every “good moderator” the bad ones have caused echo chambers and rifts that have created extremism. The open exposure to the worst of humanity was a governer more than a catalyst
That doesn’t reflect good on you, you know. Nothing of it does.
I disagree you’re looking at it with Rose tinted glasses. The problem with mods is that it is almost paradoxical a good mod is barely seen keeping the community well oiled and functional. Almost always a mod gets known is because of a fuckup.
There must be a balance between the freedom to post anything and keeping the line of the community. Is so frigging hard I don’t blame ppl for hating modwork.
The spam isn’t just for things that are savory. The spam can be for unsavory things, propagandizing, griefing, or advertising outright illegal things.
I don’t want to have to wade through a shit ton of nazi bullshit or ads for whatever is the silk road replacement nowadays in order to take a beat after work to read shitposts. Dealing with inane stupidity shouldn’t be the bar for what people have to put up with to interact with each other.
You act like everywhere was like that. We had no rules and it was never like that. You had to go out and specifically look for it like liveleaks.
What we lost and what we gained was never worth it.
We essentially just recreated cable television
You know why it wasn’t like that everywhere? Because some places had good moderation. It was like that since the days of FIDO. If there was a good community, it was good because they didn’t allow bad shit to exist in their community.
If you think spez invented moderators to sell you coca cola, or whatever, you either don’t know how shit works, or do and just secretly want to wipe treads with guro.
Because not as many people were on the internet, the technological and social landscape is completely different today compared to twenty years ago.
Moderation has also pretty much always been part of the internet in some degree, I don’t believe that the internet being enshittified has nearly as much to do with the presence of moderation, good or bad, as it does with fundamental problems with the constant monetization inherent in capitalism and the adaption of social media influence and recruitment strategies by the far right.
Moderation would be better if there was a “see anyways” button on deleted content
Holy shit, I actually totally agree on this. Like I’ve thought about this often and come to the same conclusion. It should be something where people can view what is being removed if they wish.
One of my biggest concerns with moderation is that moderator teams eventually attract people trying to conceal things and reducing what the spirit of the internet originally stood for.
Like having a company try to erase any bad stories about it’s products by controlling all the spaces we could talk about that product.
But if we can all still choose to see what is removed it gives us a big window into what moderation teams are manipulating things and which are honest teams.
Or in some state cases, changing the narrative politically.
Join nostr. Is a decentralized social network where no one can stop you from saying what ever you want.
I’ve not seen any kind of porn (adult or child). No gore.
What you do get is all the anarchist liberals, trump supporters, homophobes, racists, and WAY TOO MANY conversations about bitcoin (I recommend adding a filter to remove any posts that mention bitcoin just to actually find something different)
Well, nostr is based on some blockchain tech, of course it’s full of cryptobros
It is not. Nostr is based on public key cryptography. A lot of features are linked with a layber on top of bitcoin (lightning, which by my understanding makes absolutely no sense), but its nowhere near required
Oh shit I’ll check that out. Might be what I’m looking for. I’m so tired of modern digital spaces. Reddit really opened my eyes to what it all eventually becomes. It’s all about clearing the space for political ads, marketing and manipulations instead of by regular people for regular people. And it’s all clear cut by moderators who think they’re doing a good job.
I’ve been an ass to assholes on nostr and wouldn’t want that linked up to my Lemmy account. So if you want someone to interact with or test things, I can generate a new account
The type of person who would willingly become a moderator is the exact type of dumbass you do not want doing the job
They’re the TSA of the internet
so-called free internet advocates after being subjected to one second of unmoderated content (it’s all gore and animal abuse)
Some moderation teams are reasonable enough, they help. Others get off on deleting and reporting things they don’t like. Unmoderated internet is scary.
I would say they’re all pretty terrible just some are more terrible
AMAB
It was all. All of it. Nothing else.
I too think we need more Nazis on the internet /s
But seriously that’s what you get with less moderators.
yes, but not only, and that’s the important thing to understand
Feels like that might be the largest problem right now.
Yea we’ve increased moderation massively and totally have less Nazis today then ever before
Yes, we do actually. Not zero, unfortunately, those fuckers are like mold, always returning for some reason. Like, the second they decreased moderation on X The Everything App Formerly Known As Twitter, it got overrun with Nazis.
Cause they’re Edge Lords who saw moderation and went in the opposite direction because their personality forces them to act as antisocial antagonists
Spoken like someone who has never moderated.
Why would anyone ever moderate.
Because they run a community or group, or are trusted members to do so. I’m a mod in a 3d printing telegram group. We had to make the member listed private because every week everyone was getting DM scam attempts. The group is open, so every once in a while, a scam account enters and leaves a message, which is quickly deleted by one of us
Thank you for your service
The problem is that if you actually have no or insufficient moderation then people just start using the site to post child pornography. And then you visiting what used to be a site you like becomes basically illegal and dangerous, not to mention potentially traumatizing. I’m not exaggerating, there was a small game fan forum site I used to love along with many others, but someone caught on to the fact it was run by just one guy and kept signing up with fake accounts and posting child porn or links to it. Luckily I had already fallen off using the site by then, but one of my Internet friends who still visited it kept me updated on the drama. First everyone normal stopped visiting. Then it eventually got so bad the owner had to shut down the site.
People lack imagination when it comes to what will happen with no moderation. It quickly becomes horrible.
So yea that’s true. But I think there is a big gap between allowing CP vs banning users because the comments are not inline with marvel family entertainment corporation ethos
Absolutely there is, but unfortunately the solution to CP is having moderators who can delete content, and that alone is enough to cause all the problems with moderators. It seems largely intractable to me. The only thing I could see maybe working is some system where moderators can be removed by community vote, but then you rely on systems preventing fake accounts from being created or account age to stop those votes from being botted, etc… I just don’t see how to technically solve the problem of moderators having power to delete things. It’s the classic issue of who watches the watchmen. Humanity has never had a great solution to this.
Yeah, I love how they do 4 hours discord calls discussing if they should or not delete a single post
moderation debates are the best
feeling like a judge serving a higher cause when no one actually cares
or just delete it for no reason whatsoever
I love when it’s clearly something like a Marvel or Disney PR team running a place and it turns into the most nail on chalk board grating questions like “if you had to wear a super Heroes costume to prom which one would it be” and all the top comments are bots talking about the costumes from the latest movie coming out.
Like what the fuck happened to the Internet. I just get so sad thinking how kids are growing up with this nonsense but to them it’s totally normal and I’m 10 years it’ll get worse and they’ll hate it but that level of how bad it’ll get will just continue to snowball.
We had something. Nobody will ever understand what it was we had
It seems to me that you don’t hate moderators, you hate that they are necessary nowadays. If so, i’m right there with ya. The web used to be a much more magical place
No the moderators are the issue. Moderators, content creators and corporations have destroyed the Internet