Eh, we may have a slightly different outlook on the utilisation of dead animal parts, but how we gain most of them is definitely fucked. As in, most industrial farms are just animal cruelty. But I don’t know that I’d make the same argument necessarily for small-scale farming, given proper regulations.
And hunting is just a thing that genuinely needs doing in certain places. I’m strongly against trophy-hunting of any sort, fuck that, but my brother helping cull the local deer population since humans got rid of apex predators around here ages ago and the ecology and the deer themselves would get utterly fucked if they weren’t culled.
That’s ideologically how I feel. I don’t mind cooking meat. But then like… could I butcher an animal? Like from live animal to a plate? I genuinely don’t know. I’d know how to, but I don’t know if “I had what it took”. And I’d like to, since it’d feel hypocritical eating animals if I didn’t have the capability. When I was in the army, had I lived up north in Finland, the supply NCO’s training there did actually butcher cows afaik. And I learned like how to execute various animals, were there a need for it, but just theoretically. (There’s like a slightly different place on the forehead that you want to pop the bolt gun into, because most massive herbivores have kinda large and differently shaped skulls.)
Sorry if this is like too much “graphic” info or something. We’re not on a vegan community so I hope a respectful disagreement is allowed. And I’m only assuming disagreement, though, but username and the comment, I’m assuming perhaps you don’t utilise animal products. I may be mistaken idk. Apologies if so.
I don’t eat a lot of meat and I prioritise game and if that’s not available, sometimes horse and yes, sometimes beef as well. But I feel like Finland has pretty decent regulations when it comes to treating them, but that’s an excuse for my own moral failings, no factory farming is good.
My ethical views of livestock/game animals, factory farming, slaughter/hunting are pretty much identical to yours. From the Southern US.
Worked on farms as a kid. Chicken houses are a nightmare. The suffering inherent in industrialized meat production is hard to overstate.
I’m rebuilding our little farm. We’re going to have steers, chickens, rabbits. Deer are very overpopulated and I’m going to be taking does to fill our freezer. Trophy hunters are disgusting. (Full disclosure, I’ve taken one trophy, will likely be the only one I ever take, she wouldn’t have made it through the winter.)
Ethically, I think that if you’re going to eat meat, you should have to kill and butcher an animal at least once. We’d have a lot more vegans that way. Factory farming should be abolished.
Not gonna lie, I’m super jealous after reading that.
Not with the experiences of chickenhouses, I’ve seen the inside of industrial meat production as well. I didn’t see any live ones, so I haven’t been at a slaughterer’s.
But like jealous of the possibility to build a farm.
I’d probably give my left testicle if I could go from this bureaucratic bullshit to sort of homesteading. But in Finland, never gonna happen for me. Way too fucking expensive. And big brother got the family house (at an unfairly discounted rate as well.)
I’ve been thinking of just hunting despite living in an apartment. It’s legal. I’d have to prolly use a bow but thats no issue. (Not the accuracy or knowing how to draw one in general). Even if I did everything legally, I’m pretty sure someone might call the cops if I had a carcasa on my balcony. And despite it being legal, I can’t them coming over because of the weed I grow.
But like a chest freezer.
Factory farming should be abolished.
Yup. Small scale farming at most and well regulated at that.
That sucks. My wife and I saved and scrimped for years, and put a big chunk of retirement savings into it. We also moved 700mi/1100km buying the place without visiting it to make it happen. Huge leap into the unknown and we got very lucky to make it happen. We realized we needed to get out of the deep south in 2020. Couldn’t afford to leave the country.
Small game should be totally doable for you if you’re allowed to own a shotgun or . 22. (I love squirrel hunting, I harvest deer because we all love venison but find hunting them missrable and boring.) You could even process deer in apartment without your neighbors knowing. Gut in the field. Quarter or at least bisect them at your vehicle. Put parts wrapped in plastic in duffle bags. Carry into apartment. Further processing like skinning/deboning in bathtub/shower. Use cheap coolers with ice to do what is called wet aging the meat(common in the Southern US as it often isn’t cool enough to hang).
See that’s making assumptions, my American friend.
I see deer all the time and I have a bow, although not a hunting bow, and I don’t think it’d take me that much practice to pass the shooting test for a hunting license with a bow.
But I’d have to field dress it then carry/bike it back to my apartment. And I grow weed, which is illegal, so I don’t know if I want giving cops anymore excuses with my annoying neighbours calling the cops over things they’re not used to, or in the worst case, like a trail of blood going to my door. (Obviously there wouldn’t be trail, you’d have it in packs or bags, but like, metaphorically.)
Also my freezer is nowhere near big enough for even a small deer.
That’d save me money though, and it’d be an experience, but honestly, it’s just easier for me to grow weed, sell some, then use that cash to buy game from the butcher’s.
I could look into joining a hunting group, but I live in the city and most hunting groups are in the towns outside the city, and you can’t join them unless you live in the same municipality.
A car would be great. If I manage to buy myself a station wagon and a chest freezer, I’ll reconsider the hunting bit.
Got me. Totally made that assumption. I now live within an hour of downtown of a large metropolitan area, there’s even bus service here. However, even here, life without a vehicle would be full of hardship.
I’m used to only the extremely poor not having a vehicle. I don’t know the percentage, but a large chunk of our homeless live in their vehicle and have jobs. Which sounds like pure hell.
Another assumption I made is game not being available unless you hunt it yourself. I’ve read about butchers in Europe selling game but I have no experience with it. The only wild meat you can purchase in a store is saltwater fish, pretty much everything else must be farmed. I understand, and agree, with the original intent. Market hunting was a terrible thing, effectively wiped out the buffalo for instance. It now needs to be brought back, and closely managed, for whitetail deer.
American Buffalo: In Search of a Lost Icon by Steven Rinella is a fascinating book. Rinella is one of the few modern hunters that I respect. He also has a show, MeatEater, that’s pretty great. He’s a thinking man’s hunter.
I mean I think I’d definitely have a car if I had the money, but it’s genuinely not necessary.
It’s not as car-free of a city as something like London, (like most Londoners prolly don’t own cars, but an Oyster card?), but it’d make my life easier for sure.
I’m used to only the extremely poor not having a vehicle.
There you go assuming again.
…
Just joshing you. I’m like only half extremely poor and the other half has some cash to burn. Insofar that I don’t have official income really and cay pay bills or deposit the cash into my account. If you follow my meaning.
It’s not that bad honestly, if you’re single at least. I can’t easily fit all my shopping for several days in my backpack. If I had a family, no way, but single, easy.
Also it’s often quicker getting around with a bike. Definitely to my closest store.
Sometimes I’ll cycle faster than a bus.
A car would be faster if there was no need to park, but there is.
Yeah hunter’s here often sell a lot of the game. It’s culled not for eating but to maintain population numbers, and it’d be stupid to waste it. Although fresh game is only available like half the year at most. But usually you can find frozen. Prices just get higher.
America is so big and the standard practiced is to free every fish, which seems kinda odd to me personally. I know it isn’t but I live within visual distance of the Baltic Sea and we Nordics are kinda known for fishing, so imagining non-fresh fish is kinda hard.
Now that I think of it, prolly why there’s a successful chain of sushi places along the coast, but none really inland, not more than 200km anyway.
Whitetail deer is much more closely managed here as well. Roe deer is sort of like, half vermim. Good eating though, but like so populous they don’t even count the felling permits for them, unlike most other species. You can just go and shoot them half a year given you’re not shooting a nursing mom or a calf (is that the right word for bambi? I know it in Finnish but)
American Buffalo: In Search of a Lost Icon by Steven Rinella is a fascinating book. Rinella is one of the few modern hunters that I respect. He also has a show, MeatEater, that’s pretty great. He’s a thinking man’s hunter.
I’ll check that out but somehow hunting buffalo on open plains with ranged weapons from horseback seems a tad unsportsmanlike.
Or do they like use the forests or am I confusing buffalo and bison again?
By extremely poor, I’m talking physically disabled/mentally unwell/severely addicted. My viewpoint is from a rural southern us perspective. You see someone walking or biking, the assumption is that there is something very wrong with them and that they are probably homeless or nearly so. The only time you don’t assume that with bicyclists, is if they’re wearing spandex on a touring bike or are a kid.
I’m a total redneck so I’ve had plenty of friends and acquaintances that dealt. One former friend, only man I’ve ever called brother, I rode shotgun for a few times when he was making big moves. (he fell down the rabbithole with conspiracy stuff, we don’t really talk anymore, the brother I loved is gone)
I’m still adjusting to seeing so many people walking in my new home. Other than gas station/general stores, I’m used to stores being 30mi/48km away.
Anyhow, anybody moving product had to have a vehicle as a basic part of their trade. Like a shitbox civic and a Hipoint 9mm were a part of the starter kit or something.
You can get fresh fish, but, you usually pay a premium. Fresh farmed catfish and tilapia are common. Now that I think about it, that’s a type of factory farming I’m actually pretty okay with. As far as I know, their suffering is minimal and the environmental impact can be minimal or even positive when they are used to clean wastewater or fed byproducts. But most freshwater fish simply cannot be purchased, you have to catch them due to the laws. I now live within 300mi/482km of the coast, which is close by my definitions.
So buffalo vs bison is a funny thing. The american buffalo and bison are the same animal. However, buffalo refers to the wild ones and bison is farmed. Market hunters gunned them all down on the plains and that extirpation largely led to regulated hunting. Rinella drew a tag for one of the last populations of actual wild buffalo up in Alaska. (This stuff is closely regulated and actually backed by population science, one of the areas of law I actially agree with) So, he had to hike up a partially frozen river and stalk a buffalo, process it, and then pack and raft it out. He did this solo. He wrote the book while he was living in Manhattan, IIRC.
Yeah, tough call. It’s all just fucked.
Eh, we may have a slightly different outlook on the utilisation of dead animal parts, but how we gain most of them is definitely fucked. As in, most industrial farms are just animal cruelty. But I don’t know that I’d make the same argument necessarily for small-scale farming, given proper regulations.
And hunting is just a thing that genuinely needs doing in certain places. I’m strongly against trophy-hunting of any sort, fuck that, but my brother helping cull the local deer population since humans got rid of apex predators around here ages ago and the ecology and the deer themselves would get utterly fucked if they weren’t culled.
That’s ideologically how I feel. I don’t mind cooking meat. But then like… could I butcher an animal? Like from live animal to a plate? I genuinely don’t know. I’d know how to, but I don’t know if “I had what it took”. And I’d like to, since it’d feel hypocritical eating animals if I didn’t have the capability. When I was in the army, had I lived up north in Finland, the supply NCO’s training there did actually butcher cows afaik. And I learned like how to execute various animals, were there a need for it, but just theoretically. (There’s like a slightly different place on the forehead that you want to pop the bolt gun into, because most massive herbivores have kinda large and differently shaped skulls.)
Sorry if this is like too much “graphic” info or something. We’re not on a vegan community so I hope a respectful disagreement is allowed. And I’m only assuming disagreement, though, but username and the comment, I’m assuming perhaps you don’t utilise animal products. I may be mistaken idk. Apologies if so.
I don’t eat a lot of meat and I prioritise game and if that’s not available, sometimes horse and yes, sometimes beef as well. But I feel like Finland has pretty decent regulations when it comes to treating them, but that’s an excuse for my own moral failings, no factory farming is good.
My ethical views of livestock/game animals, factory farming, slaughter/hunting are pretty much identical to yours. From the Southern US.
Worked on farms as a kid. Chicken houses are a nightmare. The suffering inherent in industrialized meat production is hard to overstate.
I’m rebuilding our little farm. We’re going to have steers, chickens, rabbits. Deer are very overpopulated and I’m going to be taking does to fill our freezer. Trophy hunters are disgusting. (Full disclosure, I’ve taken one trophy, will likely be the only one I ever take, she wouldn’t have made it through the winter.)
Ethically, I think that if you’re going to eat meat, you should have to kill and butcher an animal at least once. We’d have a lot more vegans that way. Factory farming should be abolished.
Not gonna lie, I’m super jealous after reading that.
Not with the experiences of chickenhouses, I’ve seen the inside of industrial meat production as well. I didn’t see any live ones, so I haven’t been at a slaughterer’s.
But like jealous of the possibility to build a farm.
I’d probably give my left testicle if I could go from this bureaucratic bullshit to sort of homesteading. But in Finland, never gonna happen for me. Way too fucking expensive. And big brother got the family house (at an unfairly discounted rate as well.)
I’ve been thinking of just hunting despite living in an apartment. It’s legal. I’d have to prolly use a bow but thats no issue. (Not the accuracy or knowing how to draw one in general). Even if I did everything legally, I’m pretty sure someone might call the cops if I had a carcasa on my balcony. And despite it being legal, I can’t them coming over because of the weed I grow.
But like a chest freezer.
Yup. Small scale farming at most and well regulated at that.
That sucks. My wife and I saved and scrimped for years, and put a big chunk of retirement savings into it. We also moved 700mi/1100km buying the place without visiting it to make it happen. Huge leap into the unknown and we got very lucky to make it happen. We realized we needed to get out of the deep south in 2020. Couldn’t afford to leave the country.
Small game should be totally doable for you if you’re allowed to own a shotgun or . 22. (I love squirrel hunting, I harvest deer because we all love venison but find hunting them missrable and boring.) You could even process deer in apartment without your neighbors knowing. Gut in the field. Quarter or at least bisect them at your vehicle. Put parts wrapped in plastic in duffle bags. Carry into apartment. Further processing like skinning/deboning in bathtub/shower. Use cheap coolers with ice to do what is called wet aging the meat(common in the Southern US as it often isn’t cool enough to hang).
See that’s making assumptions, my American friend.
I see deer all the time and I have a bow, although not a hunting bow, and I don’t think it’d take me that much practice to pass the shooting test for a hunting license with a bow.
But I’d have to field dress it then carry/bike it back to my apartment. And I grow weed, which is illegal, so I don’t know if I want giving cops anymore excuses with my annoying neighbours calling the cops over things they’re not used to, or in the worst case, like a trail of blood going to my door. (Obviously there wouldn’t be trail, you’d have it in packs or bags, but like, metaphorically.)
Also my freezer is nowhere near big enough for even a small deer.
That’d save me money though, and it’d be an experience, but honestly, it’s just easier for me to grow weed, sell some, then use that cash to buy game from the butcher’s.
I could look into joining a hunting group, but I live in the city and most hunting groups are in the towns outside the city, and you can’t join them unless you live in the same municipality.
A car would be great. If I manage to buy myself a station wagon and a chest freezer, I’ll reconsider the hunting bit.
Got me. Totally made that assumption. I now live within an hour of downtown of a large metropolitan area, there’s even bus service here. However, even here, life without a vehicle would be full of hardship.
I’m used to only the extremely poor not having a vehicle. I don’t know the percentage, but a large chunk of our homeless live in their vehicle and have jobs. Which sounds like pure hell.
Another assumption I made is game not being available unless you hunt it yourself. I’ve read about butchers in Europe selling game but I have no experience with it. The only wild meat you can purchase in a store is saltwater fish, pretty much everything else must be farmed. I understand, and agree, with the original intent. Market hunting was a terrible thing, effectively wiped out the buffalo for instance. It now needs to be brought back, and closely managed, for whitetail deer.
American Buffalo: In Search of a Lost Icon by Steven Rinella is a fascinating book. Rinella is one of the few modern hunters that I respect. He also has a show, MeatEater, that’s pretty great. He’s a thinking man’s hunter.
I mean I think I’d definitely have a car if I had the money, but it’s genuinely not necessary.
It’s not as car-free of a city as something like London, (like most Londoners prolly don’t own cars, but an Oyster card?), but it’d make my life easier for sure.
There you go assuming again.
…
Just joshing you. I’m like only half extremely poor and the other half has some cash to burn. Insofar that I don’t have official income really and cay pay bills or deposit the cash into my account. If you follow my meaning.
It’s not that bad honestly, if you’re single at least. I can’t easily fit all my shopping for several days in my backpack. If I had a family, no way, but single, easy.
Also it’s often quicker getting around with a bike. Definitely to my closest store.
Sometimes I’ll cycle faster than a bus.
A car would be faster if there was no need to park, but there is.
Yeah hunter’s here often sell a lot of the game. It’s culled not for eating but to maintain population numbers, and it’d be stupid to waste it. Although fresh game is only available like half the year at most. But usually you can find frozen. Prices just get higher.
America is so big and the standard practiced is to free every fish, which seems kinda odd to me personally. I know it isn’t but I live within visual distance of the Baltic Sea and we Nordics are kinda known for fishing, so imagining non-fresh fish is kinda hard.
Now that I think of it, prolly why there’s a successful chain of sushi places along the coast, but none really inland, not more than 200km anyway.
Whitetail deer is much more closely managed here as well. Roe deer is sort of like, half vermim. Good eating though, but like so populous they don’t even count the felling permits for them, unlike most other species. You can just go and shoot them half a year given you’re not shooting a nursing mom or a calf (is that the right word for bambi? I know it in Finnish but)
I’ll check that out but somehow hunting buffalo on open plains with ranged weapons from horseback seems a tad unsportsmanlike.
Or do they like use the forests or am I confusing buffalo and bison again?
By extremely poor, I’m talking physically disabled/mentally unwell/severely addicted. My viewpoint is from a rural southern us perspective. You see someone walking or biking, the assumption is that there is something very wrong with them and that they are probably homeless or nearly so. The only time you don’t assume that with bicyclists, is if they’re wearing spandex on a touring bike or are a kid.
I’m a total redneck so I’ve had plenty of friends and acquaintances that dealt. One former friend, only man I’ve ever called brother, I rode shotgun for a few times when he was making big moves. (he fell down the rabbithole with conspiracy stuff, we don’t really talk anymore, the brother I loved is gone)
I’m still adjusting to seeing so many people walking in my new home. Other than gas station/general stores, I’m used to stores being 30mi/48km away.
Anyhow, anybody moving product had to have a vehicle as a basic part of their trade. Like a shitbox civic and a Hipoint 9mm were a part of the starter kit or something.
You can get fresh fish, but, you usually pay a premium. Fresh farmed catfish and tilapia are common. Now that I think about it, that’s a type of factory farming I’m actually pretty okay with. As far as I know, their suffering is minimal and the environmental impact can be minimal or even positive when they are used to clean wastewater or fed byproducts. But most freshwater fish simply cannot be purchased, you have to catch them due to the laws. I now live within 300mi/482km of the coast, which is close by my definitions.
So buffalo vs bison is a funny thing. The american buffalo and bison are the same animal. However, buffalo refers to the wild ones and bison is farmed. Market hunters gunned them all down on the plains and that extirpation largely led to regulated hunting. Rinella drew a tag for one of the last populations of actual wild buffalo up in Alaska. (This stuff is closely regulated and actually backed by population science, one of the areas of law I actially agree with) So, he had to hike up a partially frozen river and stalk a buffalo, process it, and then pack and raft it out. He did this solo. He wrote the book while he was living in Manhattan, IIRC.