If you think it would have panned out differently under Harris, I have a bridge to sell you. She would have not have had the influence to get Ukraine into NATO even if she wanted to, what is she going to do? Kick out Hungary? The only thing Trump has done that Harris wouldn’t have is this minerals for protection deal. The US was never an honest ally to Ukraine, they were only interested in offloading weapons onto them and bogging down Russia, they were never prepared to help in a way that would actually lead to Ukraine getting it’s lost territory back. Ukraine should have never given up their nukes, promises are only words, they never should have trusted western countries promising them security to begin with, Ukraine having nukes might be the only scenario where an independent Ukraine doesn’t end up losing territory to Russia.
Dude… bravo, man, for making the effort, I guess. This is actually pretty impressive.
The US was never an honest ally to Ukraine, they were only interested in offloading weapons onto them and bogging down Russia
Absolutely correct.
they were never prepared to help in a way that would actually lead to Ukraine getting it’s lost territory back
All the blue is Ukraine’s lost territory they got back with the West’s help. There’s also Kursk.
Ukraine should have never given up their nukes, promises are only words
Probably true.
they never should have trusted western countries promising them security to begin with
Did Western countries promise them security? That’s the whole controversy about them joining NATO. For some reason, it is a globe-spanning crisis for Russia if NATO does offer them security, were they to be invaded, instead of just no-strings-attached weapons and a hearty pat on the back for good luck. Wonder why that’s a big issue.
I feel like this phrasing is, maybe, an incredibly artful dodge, inserted into the middle of talking about the Budapest Memorandum to make it sound like any part whatsoever of the betrayal of that agreement came from any source other than Russia, Russia, Russia. Maybe I’m reading too much in, though.
Ukraine having nukes might be the only scenario where an independent Ukraine doesn’t end up losing territory to Russia
Probably true. They’re working on it. Doesn’t that kind of thing bother you? Wouldn’t it be better to give them conventional assistance to the extent they actually need, and allow them to counterattack without all this nail-biting about how it would be ever so rude and we don’t really care to that extent about dead Ukrainian soldiers and civilians? So they can win the fucking war and we can all go back to our lives?
The only thing Trump has done that Harris wouldn’t have is this minerals for protection deal.
I saved this one for last. I’m going to just sit and ponder at it, in silent contemplation.
Like I say, it’s pretty impressive. You’ve combined true statements that are sort of in the neighborhood of what you’re trying to prove, unrelated assertions, and absolute bald-faced earnest fabrications, into a pretty passable imitation of something that makes sense.
Like I say, it’s pretty impressive. You’ve combined true statements that are sort of in the neighborhood of what you’re trying to prove, unrelated assertions, and absolute bald-faced earnest fabrications, into a pretty passable imitation of something that makes sense.
You are so snarky it hurts, you managed to say almost nothing of value in all of these paragraphs. If you want to add something of value to this discussion inform me on what Harris would have actually done to help Ukraine or give them anything substantively different than what Trump is offering.
This is another pretty good one. You sound so confident when taking my detailed point-by-point response and categorizing it as “nothing of value” and airily dismissing it, that you can keep the conversation going without needing to make any kind of response. Someone who’s not reading critically will simply see it as “a disagreement” between two people who are being pretty disagreeable with each other.
Then, you’re recapturing a little psychological edge by telling me what to do. If I obey, and respond to your question, you’ve set a good precedent to be able to just do the same type of thing again: Announce that I have failed, and nothing I said had any value, and keep the conversation going, making some firmly insistent counterpoints and talking down to me. It’s easy for someone who reads your response to read the signals and come to the conclusion that I am the one that’s wrong. If I refuse, though, it makes me look like I don’t have a good response.
Excerpting only the part of my message where I was kind of a dick, and responding more or less in kind, is a really effective technique. You’re choosing what part of my message is the part that’s going to be featured in the ensuing conversation. And, if I call back to all the stuff I said that you didn’t respond to, I sort of sound like I’m whining about it and trying to control the conversation.
Fine. I will ignore the snarky elements of this message and simply ask you
If you want to add something of value to this discussion inform me on what Harris would have actually done to help Ukraine or give them anything substantively different than what Trump is offering.
Fine. I will ignore the blatant attempt to redirect the conversation ignoring everything I said, and simply ask you.
How are you trying to get away with saying that Ukraine can’t recapture any territory with the West’s help, when they did exactly that in 2022? Why are you ignoring Trump actively trying to sabotage Ukraine aid and risk the semi-stalemate turning into an outright loss, which is a pretty fuckin’ salient difference and what he got impeached for? And also, presumably, what he is teeing up to do again by offering unacceptable peace terms to Ukraine right now? Whose fault is it, solely and completely, that the Budapest Memorandum didn’t assure Ukraine’s security in this instance?
If you think it would have panned out differently under Harris, I have a bridge to sell you. She would have not have had the influence to get Ukraine into NATO even if she wanted to, what is she going to do? Kick out Hungary? The only thing Trump has done that Harris wouldn’t have is this minerals for protection deal. The US was never an honest ally to Ukraine, they were only interested in offloading weapons onto them and bogging down Russia, they were never prepared to help in a way that would actually lead to Ukraine getting it’s lost territory back. Ukraine should have never given up their nukes, promises are only words, they never should have trusted western countries promising them security to begin with, Ukraine having nukes might be the only scenario where an independent Ukraine doesn’t end up losing territory to Russia.
Dude… bravo, man, for making the effort, I guess. This is actually pretty impressive.
Absolutely correct.
All the blue is Ukraine’s lost territory they got back with the West’s help. There’s also Kursk.
Probably true.
Did Western countries promise them security? That’s the whole controversy about them joining NATO. For some reason, it is a globe-spanning crisis for Russia if NATO does offer them security, were they to be invaded, instead of just no-strings-attached weapons and a hearty pat on the back for good luck. Wonder why that’s a big issue.
I feel like this phrasing is, maybe, an incredibly artful dodge, inserted into the middle of talking about the Budapest Memorandum to make it sound like any part whatsoever of the betrayal of that agreement came from any source other than Russia, Russia, Russia. Maybe I’m reading too much in, though.
Probably true. They’re working on it. Doesn’t that kind of thing bother you? Wouldn’t it be better to give them conventional assistance to the extent they actually need, and allow them to counterattack without all this nail-biting about how it would be ever so rude and we don’t really care to that extent about dead Ukrainian soldiers and civilians? So they can win the fucking war and we can all go back to our lives?
I saved this one for last. I’m going to just sit and ponder at it, in silent contemplation.
Like I say, it’s pretty impressive. You’ve combined true statements that are sort of in the neighborhood of what you’re trying to prove, unrelated assertions, and absolute bald-faced earnest fabrications, into a pretty passable imitation of something that makes sense.
You are so snarky it hurts, you managed to say almost nothing of value in all of these paragraphs. If you want to add something of value to this discussion inform me on what Harris would have actually done to help Ukraine or give them anything substantively different than what Trump is offering.
This is another pretty good one. You sound so confident when taking my detailed point-by-point response and categorizing it as “nothing of value” and airily dismissing it, that you can keep the conversation going without needing to make any kind of response. Someone who’s not reading critically will simply see it as “a disagreement” between two people who are being pretty disagreeable with each other.
Then, you’re recapturing a little psychological edge by telling me what to do. If I obey, and respond to your question, you’ve set a good precedent to be able to just do the same type of thing again: Announce that I have failed, and nothing I said had any value, and keep the conversation going, making some firmly insistent counterpoints and talking down to me. It’s easy for someone who reads your response to read the signals and come to the conclusion that I am the one that’s wrong. If I refuse, though, it makes me look like I don’t have a good response.
Excerpting only the part of my message where I was kind of a dick, and responding more or less in kind, is a really effective technique. You’re choosing what part of my message is the part that’s going to be featured in the ensuing conversation. And, if I call back to all the stuff I said that you didn’t respond to, I sort of sound like I’m whining about it and trying to control the conversation.
Like I say, pretty impressive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmVkJvieaOA
Fine. I will ignore the snarky elements of this message and simply ask you
If you want to add something of value to this discussion inform me on what Harris would have actually done to help Ukraine or give them anything substantively different than what Trump is offering.
Fine. I will ignore the blatant attempt to redirect the conversation ignoring everything I said, and simply ask you.
How are you trying to get away with saying that Ukraine can’t recapture any territory with the West’s help, when they did exactly that in 2022? Why are you ignoring Trump actively trying to sabotage Ukraine aid and risk the semi-stalemate turning into an outright loss, which is a pretty fuckin’ salient difference and what he got impeached for? And also, presumably, what he is teeing up to do again by offering unacceptable peace terms to Ukraine right now? Whose fault is it, solely and completely, that the Budapest Memorandum didn’t assure Ukraine’s security in this instance?
“I have a bridge to sell you.”
Is it the one you yourself were conned into buying? You know, because you’re clearly so fucking stupid.