Hardly surprising considering that Brave, Vivaldi and Edge are all based on Chromium. The Brave and Vivaldi team won’t have the resources to maintain Manifest v2 support for each new Chromium version, and Microsoft doesn’t have any reason to support v2 with Edge outside of goodwill.
Vivaldi just has better features than Firefox. I’ll switch to Firefox when Vivaldi is forced to switch to V3 but until then I’m gonna continue to enjoy Vivaldi
Tab stacks and mouse gestures are the 2 that I use the most, that don’t exist in Firefox. Tab hibernation is also extremely useful, but I don’t know if that exists in Firefox.
And in general there are so many useful tools, like bookmarking by stack and/or window etc.
i don’t know why people are so allergic to firefox but it is the answer.
Basically because in the later year, the development of firefox took very curious directions, from trying to break some decades old, standard feature (only to revert when gmail users, of all things, complained en masse), to integrating many useless extensions (pocket anyone?) that you can’t remove and that are more and more difficult to disable. To say nothing of the occasional advertisement for irrelevant products. Basically, even if it’s on a smaller scale, using firefox today is starting to look like using windows: you have to fight it on every update to remove something they bork.
And I’m not even talking about the shit that happens at their mother business, Mozilla.
All of this is even more infuriating, because they could very easily not do it and still pursue their venture. Have Firefox, the web browser, be a thing, and have all the shit actually packaged as a separate extension. Heck, even sell or promote it as “Firefox+” or whatever. Just, don’t break the core feature to add “smart bookmarks” or whatever VPN ads.
are ads and 24/7 surveillance not worse than this though? and all of googles questionable business practices they do not only on chrome but all of their products? i think the choice is clear here. perfect doesnt have to be the enemy of better.
“worse” is debatable, but they certainly are an issue.
However, that doesn’t make it ok in Firefox either. Having a good reputation does not mean you can burn it away by trying your best to look the same as the bad guy you’re supposed to fight. Firefox mobile, for a very plain and simple example, have stuff like “future experiment” and telemetry enabled by default. Sure, I can disable them, but they should either be disabled by default, or have a one-time popup that provides the option on the first launch.
My position is that if a piece of software becomes increasingly intrusive and tedious to use with each “update”, it’s time to look somewhere else. Whether it’s Firefox, Chrome, or even OS like Windows. Having to fight back to get to a decent, usable state means that it’s no longer the right tool for you.
Fortunately, some people are doing the heavy lifting by providing what would be considered “vanilla” firefox with some good forks, as far as being a browser goes.
Linux mint exists, switch and never look back. They just released version 22 and it’s probably the best version of mint I’ve ever used. Switch to mint and use flatpaks instead.
Mozilla’s Firefox browser isn’t known for speed. It falls into last place in most of our tests for Windows and Mac, and that’s okay. Firefox is more about security features than speed, which is ideal if you’re more concerned about blocking malware than loading pages in a flash.
Yep, I’d probably be wasting my time going down the uninstall-reinstall rabbit hole and would probably not find speed increases.
I came back to Firefox this spring after probably 12 years, or how long is Chrome around and I must say everything works with it, it is snappy, doesn’t bog down my memory and has great extensions even on Android. I don’t look back to Chrome. It was great in the beginning and got more convoluted as the time progressed. With switching to Firefox i feel like when switched to Chrome back in the day.
The answer is more than one, because Firefox has several forks of its own, and as far as I know all of them (even Pale Moon, which is highly divergent and never supported Manifest V2) support uBlock.
I agree that all Chromium-based browsers are going to drop support sooner or later.
Firefox will support Manifest v3. However Mozilla will be implementing Manifest 3 differently so the routes Ublock and other extensions use to maintain privacy and block ads will still be available. Firefox will support both the original route and the new limited option Google is forcing on Chromium.
Googles implementation deliberately locks out extensions by removing something called WebRequest, supposedly for security reasons but almost certainly actually for commercial reasons as they are not a neutral party. Google is a major ad and data broker.
Apple will apparently also be adopting the same approach for Safari as Mozilla is for Firefox.
If I remember correctly, yes. There was a pain in the ass a few years ago when Firefox switched from their own add-on system to one that matched Chrome’s, despite Firefox’s being more powerful and mature. The goal was to make it easier to port Chromes (arguably) greater variety of add-ons to Firefox.
It was an unpopular decision and it was the start of a downward decline for Firefox. People that had their browser “just the way I like it” found themselves starting fresh essentially, and without some of their favourite add-ons.
How so? They can support Manifest v2 and v3 simultaneously. It’s a bit harder for their old add-on system since that add-on system had more hooks into the browser, but v3 is largely just a restriction, so there won’t be much conflict there.
Ah, if it’s easy to just maintain both, and v3 is largely backwards compatible then I’m mistaken on how divergent v3 is.
Defanged/declawed v3 is a weird thing to have exist. It’s a bummer that Chrome got to set the standard. And then they took that and restricted things. This isn’t a healthy standard.
If FF ever drops V3, it’ll be because they have extensions to bring parity to V2. There is maintenance overhead, but I doubt it’s anywhere close to the old add-on vs V2 differences.
Vivaldi does a lot of adblocking natively, and they are maintaining V2 as long as they can, which based on info from Google is summer 2025 but might change.
Could we keep using our ad-blocking extensions in Vivaldi?
But, “Wait”, I hear you say, “Doesn’t that mean that basically, Vivaldi might be able to keep webRequest intact just by bypassing the checks for enterprise environments? Could we keep using our adblocking extensions in Vivaldi?”
This certainly sounds plausible, but it is not something that we can promise without seeing what ends up happening in the code itself. If there is an easy way to keep webRequest functioning as it did for a while longer, we’ll consider doing it.
However, it is important to note that extension ad blockers often depend on other APIs that are removed in Manifest V3 (and probably much harder to bring back), so there is no guarantee that simply keeping the blocking version of webRequest alive is going to be enough, without some work from extension maintainers.
Brave is based on Chromium, so where Chrome goes, Brave is likely to follow.
Routers and VPNs are only able to filter URLs. They have no way of manipulating the browser session, which is the other half of uBlock’s functionality and why it will always be superior to PiHoles or ad-blocking DNS.
Google, for example, smuggles ads through their “good” domains on YouTube that deliver video content; at that point, it’s an endless game of whack-a-mole in the dark to have a list that filters the correct URL without obliterating the ability to watch videos.
URL filtering is better than nothing, but it’s not really a comparable solution.
Brave is based on Chromium, so where Chrome goes, Brave is likely to follow.
To follow what? Brave’s adblocker is not an extension and it is not affected by MV3. And it has most of uBO’s features. More than I have ever used on uBO anyway.
What is that supposed to mean? You realize Chromium-based browsers and Chrome are not the same thing? Brave is made by a completely different company making independent development decisions.
Google, for example, smuggles ads through their “good” domains on YouTube that deliver video content; at that point, it’s an endless game of
I don’t know anything about that. I just know that I don’t use the browser to watch YT videos because it’s an absolute nightmare. I use FreeTube, GrayJay, LibreTube, etc.
Brave is not completely independent of chrome. It’s completely and entirely dependent on it. Brave developers don’t and probably can’t develope a modern web browser. All they do is adapt chromium to have a few extra features.
There is only three major web browsers. Firefox, safari and chrome. Everything else is just a few addons, preconfigured settings and UI changes. Even chrome was largely safari until Google forked their web engine.
That’s not what I said. I said it’s completely independent of Google.
All they do is adapt chromium to have a few extra features.
If you used it for 5 minutes you’d know that’s not true. Quit making shit up.
None of this has anything to do with the topic at hand (ad blocking) which Brave has built into the browser and functions the same as uBo. If it didn’t work, you might as well use Chrome so they have every incentive to ensure that it does and no incentive to stop it. Even if they did, you could switch later just like you could today.
I’m not trying to convince anyone to use Brave, it has plenty of drawbacks and concerns without pulling random ones out of your ass.
Yes there are plenty of changes, but it’s built on it, and shaped by it, and Chromium is heavily influenced by Google. If chromium doesn’t support v2 manifests it is unlikely that Brave will. In this particular case it may be that Brave’s ad blocking and privacy features are equivalent to uBO, but it’s still underpinned by an engine that Google has strong influence over, so it can’t completely shake their influence.
Nobody doesn’t know that it’s built on Chromium. The problem is you’re grossly overestimating the influence that Google has or wants. If Google wanted to control it, they would just not create Chromium in the first place, and force you to just use Chrome.
Do you have any evidence at all that Brave is controlled by Google in any way that is against their will? Anything that prevents them from doing whatever they want? Any evidence at all? Do you really think they wouldn’t say anything if they were?
GrapheneOS, LineageOS, eOS, CopperheadOS and CalyxOS all work identically but no one points at those and says they’re “controlled” by Google.
Look, I’m not attacking them over this, as you rightly said, it has plenty of other drawbacks and concerns, I’m just emphasising that Google do have a large degree of influence over them. For instance, Chromium is dropping manifest v2 support, so Brave pretty much has to do the same. They’ve said that, as Chromium has a switch to keep it enabled until June (iirc) they’ve enabled that, but after Chromium drops manifest v2 the most they can do is try to support a subset of it as best they can. The Brave devs may not want to drop support, but Google have decreed it will be dropped, so they end up dropping it and having to put in extra work to keep even a subset working for some period of time.
If Brave gets even a moderate market share, Google will continue to mess them around like this as they really don’t like people not seeing their adverts.
Ultimately it’s software, so the Brave devs can do pretty much whatever they want, limited by the available time and money. Google’s influence extends to making that either easier or harder, it much the same way as they influence the Android ecosystem.
I don’t understand what that has to do with this conversation…? Brave makes it easier than Firefox to get ad-blocking. You don’t even need to download an extension…
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Hardly surprising considering that Brave, Vivaldi and Edge are all based on Chromium. The Brave and Vivaldi team won’t have the resources to maintain Manifest v2 support for each new Chromium version, and Microsoft doesn’t have any reason to support v2 with Edge outside of goodwill.
They are just giving some time for the waters to calm a bit, and then say that it is taking too much effort.
Yup. And perhaps even hoping they can pick up a few users from Chrome when it drops support.
i don’t know why people are so allergic to firefox but it is the answer.
its the only halfway decent answer. install firefox and switch to it.
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Vivaldi just has better features than Firefox. I’ll switch to Firefox when Vivaldi is forced to switch to V3 but until then I’m gonna continue to enjoy Vivaldi
Curios, what sets Vivaldi apart so much in features that makes it hard to switch to Firefox?
Tab stacks and mouse gestures are the 2 that I use the most, that don’t exist in Firefox. Tab hibernation is also extremely useful, but I don’t know if that exists in Firefox.
And in general there are so many useful tools, like bookmarking by stack and/or window etc.
Their website lists many of the main features.
Basically because in the later year, the development of firefox took very curious directions, from trying to break some decades old, standard feature (only to revert when gmail users, of all things, complained en masse), to integrating many useless extensions (pocket anyone?) that you can’t remove and that are more and more difficult to disable. To say nothing of the occasional advertisement for irrelevant products. Basically, even if it’s on a smaller scale, using firefox today is starting to look like using windows: you have to fight it on every update to remove something they bork.
And I’m not even talking about the shit that happens at their mother business, Mozilla.
All of this is even more infuriating, because they could very easily not do it and still pursue their venture. Have Firefox, the web browser, be a thing, and have all the shit actually packaged as a separate extension. Heck, even sell or promote it as “Firefox+” or whatever. Just, don’t break the core feature to add “smart bookmarks” or whatever VPN ads.
are ads and 24/7 surveillance not worse than this though? and all of googles questionable business practices they do not only on chrome but all of their products? i think the choice is clear here. perfect doesnt have to be the enemy of better.
“worse” is debatable, but they certainly are an issue.
However, that doesn’t make it ok in Firefox either. Having a good reputation does not mean you can burn it away by trying your best to look the same as the bad guy you’re supposed to fight. Firefox mobile, for a very plain and simple example, have stuff like “future experiment” and telemetry enabled by default. Sure, I can disable them, but they should either be disabled by default, or have a one-time popup that provides the option on the first launch.
My position is that if a piece of software becomes increasingly intrusive and tedious to use with each “update”, it’s time to look somewhere else. Whether it’s Firefox, Chrome, or even OS like Windows. Having to fight back to get to a decent, usable state means that it’s no longer the right tool for you.
Fortunately, some people are doing the heavy lifting by providing what would be considered “vanilla” firefox with some good forks, as far as being a browser goes.
I love Firefox, used to use it all the time. Now it’s slower on Ubuntu than Brave. I mean slow as in irritating to use, click and wait.
thats probably because you are using the snap version of firefox canonical is pushing.
a big reason why i want to ditch ubuntu.
Linux mint exists, switch and never look back. They just released version 22 and it’s probably the best version of mint I’ve ever used. Switch to mint and use flatpaks instead.
Then something must be wrong with the way you configured your OS.
umbrella at lemmy.ml wrote:
To which I offered a possible answer. Does everyone have misconfigured operating systems?
The Best Web Browsers of 2024 | HighSpeedInternet.com
Yep, I’d probably be wasting my time going down the uninstall-reinstall rabbit hole and would probably not find speed increases.
I came back to Firefox this spring after probably 12 years, or how long is Chrome around and I must say everything works with it, it is snappy, doesn’t bog down my memory and has great extensions even on Android. I don’t look back to Chrome. It was great in the beginning and got more convoluted as the time progressed. With switching to Firefox i feel like when switched to Chrome back in the day.
The answer is more than one, because Firefox has several forks of its own, and as far as I know all of them (even Pale Moon, which is highly divergent and never supported Manifest V2) support uBlock.
I agree that all Chromium-based browsers are going to drop support sooner or later.
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Does Firefox use “manifest v2”? When reading all the frothing news about this stuff, I assumed the “manifest” thing was a Chromium thing.
Firefox will support Manifest v3. However Mozilla will be implementing Manifest 3 differently so the routes Ublock and other extensions use to maintain privacy and block ads will still be available. Firefox will support both the original route and the new limited option Google is forcing on Chromium.
Googles implementation deliberately locks out extensions by removing something called WebRequest, supposedly for security reasons but almost certainly actually for commercial reasons as they are not a neutral party. Google is a major ad and data broker.
Apple will apparently also be adopting the same approach for Safari as Mozilla is for Firefox.
If I remember correctly, yes. There was a pain in the ass a few years ago when Firefox switched from their own add-on system to one that matched Chrome’s, despite Firefox’s being more powerful and mature. The goal was to make it easier to port Chromes (arguably) greater variety of add-ons to Firefox.
It was an unpopular decision and it was the start of a downward decline for Firefox. People that had their browser “just the way I like it” found themselves starting fresh essentially, and without some of their favourite add-ons.
Damn. That means they are once again on a divergent path.
How so? They can support Manifest v2 and v3 simultaneously. It’s a bit harder for their old add-on system since that add-on system had more hooks into the browser, but v3 is largely just a restriction, so there won’t be much conflict there.
Ah, if it’s easy to just maintain both, and v3 is largely backwards compatible then I’m mistaken on how divergent v3 is.
Defanged/declawed v3 is a weird thing to have exist. It’s a bummer that Chrome got to set the standard. And then they took that and restricted things. This isn’t a healthy standard.
If FF ever drops V3, it’ll be because they have extensions to bring parity to V2. There is maintenance overhead, but I doubt it’s anywhere close to the old add-on vs V2 differences.
Vivaldi does a lot of adblocking natively, and they are maintaining V2 as long as they can, which based on info from Google is summer 2025 but might change.
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Will the Vivaldi Ad Blocker be affected by the Manifest V3 changes? I made some architectural choices early on that I believe should keep it functional, regardless of the Manifest V3 changes.
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Not arguing, just adding context from their blog.
They don’t need v2 because their ad-blocking has always been built into the browser itself.
Personally don’t really care about the browser because the ad-blocking is built into my router and VPN and the apps I use and so many other things.
Brave is based on Chromium, so where Chrome goes, Brave is likely to follow.
Routers and VPNs are only able to filter URLs. They have no way of manipulating the browser session, which is the other half of uBlock’s functionality and why it will always be superior to PiHoles or ad-blocking DNS.
Google, for example, smuggles ads through their “good” domains on YouTube that deliver video content; at that point, it’s an endless game of whack-a-mole in the dark to have a list that filters the correct URL without obliterating the ability to watch videos.
URL filtering is better than nothing, but it’s not really a comparable solution.
To follow what? Brave’s adblocker is not an extension and it is not affected by MV3. And it has most of uBO’s features. More than I have ever used on uBO anyway.
True, uBO doesn’t have a shitty cryptobro component unfortunately. Also I hate that it’s not bankrolled by a conservative sociopath
Yawn… Any technical point?
Right the only thing that matters is technology. That’s why I think Facebook has the right to facilitate genocides any time they want! /s
What is that supposed to mean? You realize Chromium-based browsers and Chrome are not the same thing? Brave is made by a completely different company making independent development decisions.
I don’t know anything about that. I just know that I don’t use the browser to watch YT videos because it’s an absolute nightmare. I use FreeTube, GrayJay, LibreTube, etc.
I also know I don’t have any problems with ads.
Brave is not completely independent of chrome. It’s completely and entirely dependent on it. Brave developers don’t and probably can’t develope a modern web browser. All they do is adapt chromium to have a few extra features.
There is only three major web browsers. Firefox, safari and chrome. Everything else is just a few addons, preconfigured settings and UI changes. Even chrome was largely safari until Google forked their web engine.
That’s not what I said. I said it’s completely independent of Google.
If you used it for 5 minutes you’d know that’s not true. Quit making shit up.
None of this has anything to do with the topic at hand (ad blocking) which Brave has built into the browser and functions the same as uBo. If it didn’t work, you might as well use Chrome so they have every incentive to ensure that it does and no incentive to stop it. Even if they did, you could switch later just like you could today.
I’m not trying to convince anyone to use Brave, it has plenty of drawbacks and concerns without pulling random ones out of your ass.
Are you not really in the tech industry? Because he’s right. And he’s sticking to facts.
There are no facts here.
Bro… This whole thread is you sounding like a fool. Read and lean what’s being said. You are wrong.
That’s from the Brave website: https://brave.com/compare/chrome-vs-brave/
Yes there are plenty of changes, but it’s built on it, and shaped by it, and Chromium is heavily influenced by Google. If chromium doesn’t support v2 manifests it is unlikely that Brave will. In this particular case it may be that Brave’s ad blocking and privacy features are equivalent to uBO, but it’s still underpinned by an engine that Google has strong influence over, so it can’t completely shake their influence.
Nobody doesn’t know that it’s built on Chromium. The problem is you’re grossly overestimating the influence that Google has or wants. If Google wanted to control it, they would just not create Chromium in the first place, and force you to just use Chrome.
Do you have any evidence at all that Brave is controlled by Google in any way that is against their will? Anything that prevents them from doing whatever they want? Any evidence at all? Do you really think they wouldn’t say anything if they were?
GrapheneOS, LineageOS, eOS, CopperheadOS and CalyxOS all work identically but no one points at those and says they’re “controlled” by Google.
Look, I’m not attacking them over this, as you rightly said, it has plenty of other drawbacks and concerns, I’m just emphasising that Google do have a large degree of influence over them. For instance, Chromium is dropping manifest v2 support, so Brave pretty much has to do the same. They’ve said that, as Chromium has a switch to keep it enabled until June (iirc) they’ve enabled that, but after Chromium drops manifest v2 the most they can do is try to support a subset of it as best they can. The Brave devs may not want to drop support, but Google have decreed it will be dropped, so they end up dropping it and having to put in extra work to keep even a subset working for some period of time.
If Brave gets even a moderate market share, Google will continue to mess them around like this as they really don’t like people not seeing their adverts.
Ultimately it’s software, so the Brave devs can do pretty much whatever they want, limited by the available time and money. Google’s influence extends to making that either easier or harder, it much the same way as they influence the Android ecosystem.
Adblocking should be accessible to every layperson and not just people who know how to set up a pihole or use a VPN. It’s a basic security feature.
I don’t understand what that has to do with this conversation…? Brave makes it easier than Firefox to get ad-blocking. You don’t even need to download an extension…