You are using a motte-and-bailey switch right now.
Nobody was talking against the self-domestication point. That one is your bailey argument: A simple, easy-to-defend stantement that means very little and is largely correct.
The motte argument that everyone was contending was that domestication equals captivity. That one is a garbage claim that just doesn’t hold up.
You lead with the domestication equals captivity point and when you got called out on it you are now trying to switch from your motte argument to the bailey argument, claiming that this was what you were saying all along and not acknowleding that you switched arguments half-way in between.
And yes, equalling domestication and captivity is a moral, ethical, ‘should-be’ claim, and you repeated doing so in this last comment of yours as well by equalling the cuman condition with animal captivity while bringing up slavery in the same line which actually is quite close to animal captivity. The general human condition in 2025 does not equal slavery.
The only way you would seriously make that argument is if you either have no idea what slavery is (which I doubt) or if you want to claim that slavery is not “some kind of moral, ethical, ‘should be’ type” of problem.
And if you can’t see problems with slavery, we might have a bigger issue at hand.
Again, no, you’re wrong, you are thinking I made a claim I didn’t make, and at this point are just generally not able to read and parse what I am saying without imposing your own incorrect interpretation on it.
I am making a semantic, definitional, technical ‘claim’ or argument, not a moral one.
Also, specifically to slavery and captivity, If you think slavery existed before civilization, anthropological and historical data strongly suggest you are wrong, slavery came about with civilization.
For a more modern and widrspread comparison of animal captivity to modern human society, consider prisons, incarceration, whch also came about with civilization, particularly became more widesprrad with industrial civilization.
But anyway, I won’t be arguing with you on this anymore, as you are determined to continuously misconstrue what I am saying.
If your point is semantic or definitional, then it needs to follow the semantics and definition of the word you are referring to. Not being able to steal things or consume services without paying for them is not captivity.
Your point is that you made up a definition and then claim that this definition is correct.
You are using a motte-and-bailey switch right now.
Nobody was talking against the self-domestication point. That one is your bailey argument: A simple, easy-to-defend stantement that means very little and is largely correct.
The motte argument that everyone was contending was that domestication equals captivity. That one is a garbage claim that just doesn’t hold up.
You lead with the domestication equals captivity point and when you got called out on it you are now trying to switch from your motte argument to the bailey argument, claiming that this was what you were saying all along and not acknowleding that you switched arguments half-way in between.
And yes, equalling domestication and captivity is a moral, ethical, ‘should-be’ claim, and you repeated doing so in this last comment of yours as well by equalling the cuman condition with animal captivity while bringing up slavery in the same line which actually is quite close to animal captivity. The general human condition in 2025 does not equal slavery.
The only way you would seriously make that argument is if you either have no idea what slavery is (which I doubt) or if you want to claim that slavery is not “some kind of moral, ethical, ‘should be’ type” of problem.
And if you can’t see problems with slavery, we might have a bigger issue at hand.
Again, no, you’re wrong, you are thinking I made a claim I didn’t make, and at this point are just generally not able to read and parse what I am saying without imposing your own incorrect interpretation on it.
I am making a semantic, definitional, technical ‘claim’ or argument, not a moral one.
Also, specifically to slavery and captivity, If you think slavery existed before civilization, anthropological and historical data strongly suggest you are wrong, slavery came about with civilization.
For a more modern and widrspread comparison of animal captivity to modern human society, consider prisons, incarceration, whch also came about with civilization, particularly became more widesprrad with industrial civilization.
But anyway, I won’t be arguing with you on this anymore, as you are determined to continuously misconstrue what I am saying.
If your point is semantic or definitional, then it needs to follow the semantics and definition of the word you are referring to. Not being able to steal things or consume services without paying for them is not captivity.
Your point is that you made up a definition and then claim that this definition is correct.