• wosat@lemmy.world
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    21 hours ago

    I don’t disagree with the criticisms of American cars – overpriced, uninspired, unreliable, over-engineered, etc. – but to everyone saying “we should just compete”, do you realize the realities that Chinese workers experience? Have you heard of 996? It’s shorthand for a common work schedule in China: 9am to 9pm, 6 days a week. Benefits that are common in the U.S., even in non-union shops, like retirement plans, PTO, worker’s comp, and overtime pay are rare. So, yeah, things can be made much cheaper if you are willing to feed your workforce into the grinder.

    • andros_rex@lemmy.world
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      5 hours ago

      Have you heard of 996? It’s shorthand for a common work schedule in China: 9am to 9pm, 6 days a week

      So a typical American teacher’s schedule?

    • jarmitage@mander.xyz
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      19 hours ago

      And that’s exactly what is coming to the US, since they think workers rights and unions are the problem.

        • Komodo Rodeo@lemmy.world
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          18 hours ago

          Not an American, but it’s worth saying that despite their labour market’s galling shortfalls, they don’t have a culture of 12 hour days for 6 days per week. Many work much less, and those who do pull those kinds of hours are typically tradesmen/women who make pretty good bank. Those types of jobs are being systematically eliminated by corporations, but I digress.

    • Jhex@lemmy.world
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      20 hours ago

      So we should then let American oligarchs drive American workers to the same but slower? because that is what has happened so far

      • psycho_driver@lemmy.world
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        20 hours ago

        That is certainly their wet dream, now that they can’t easily just move their manufacturing to China and reap all of the benefits like they could 70s - 90s.

    • Horsey@lemmy.world
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      18 hours ago

      I will strongly disagree with “over engineered”. Why a car company with all their money and bailouts that they can’t compete with Apple/Android on touchscreen features and responsiveness is the whole reason why Chinese cars will kill American car companies. Chinese cars support Android auto even when Google play services isn’t even available in China (last I checked).

      • wosat@lemmy.world
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        13 hours ago

        Okay, I’ll concede that point to you. U.S. carmakers suck at software. And, even on the hardware, they’re resistant to change and slow to innovate.

        • Horsey@lemmy.world
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          9 hours ago

          Software is the answer to many of the mechanical issues too though. Granted, the physical engineering is definitely over engineered, but would they really need to have 6 different taillight frames when LEDs can be multicolor and just tuned with software for each market? I also see zero reason why manufacturers can’t start from a base and tweak for different market configurations. You also see car companies complain about complex regulation, but then in this day and age when east Asia can make you anything, that’s not an excuse I’m willing to be fed. I fucking hate Elmo like everyone else here, but why the hell is the Model Y the most popular car in the world. None of the other companies want to copy Tesla? They don’t want to compete? We’ve gotten to the point where it’s ludicrous that they’re not competing.

    • InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world
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      19 hours ago

      but to everyone saying “we should just compete”, do you realize the realities that Chinese workers experience? Have you heard of 996?

      I get what you are saying, but sometimes I think we should in a way, or at least we should get republicans exposed to it, so they can live their hogwash ideas of free markets.

      • Komodo Rodeo@lemmy.world
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        18 hours ago

        It won’t be them living the reality though, it will be their subordinates and employees. The same ones already being crushed to death by production metrics, stagnation of wages and inflation. The people involved in these decision making processes are too well shielded from the actual consequences, beyond maybe driving past and seeing the ruins of what used to be towns/cities/neighbourhoods destroyed by the free market and social policies.

    • pup_atlas@pawb.social
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      20 hours ago

      I’m not sure I see a connection between the working conditions, and the quality of the car. I don’t think anyone is advocating for adopting those bad conditions, but they also seem unrelated to the quality of design, and parts that go into it. That purely seems like a question of paying for good high-quality parts, and not skimping out on the design phase.

    • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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      18 hours ago

      Exactly, which is why I’m left scratching my head why the US wants to bring manufacturing back to the US. We’re much better of growing the well-paying jobs where our education systems can compete favorably vs bringing back jobs that compete with low-paying jobs…

        • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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          18 hours ago

          Sure, but the US has a lot of well-educated people (e.g. see the Education Index), as well as a lot of opportunities for well-educated people to get in-demand jobs that pay well.

          Literacy rates are interesting, but they don’t translate to well-paying jobs like education attainment rates.

          • Jhex@lemmy.world
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            17 hours ago

            Sure, but the US has a lot of well-educated people (e.g. see the Education Index), as well as a lot of opportunities for well-educated people to get in-demand jobs that pay well.

            There are more Indian Engineers in the USA than American ones… and Trump is destroying all of it

            The way things are going for you, nobody with a half a choice would decide to migrate to the USA for work

              • Jhex@lemmy.world
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                1 hour ago

                and Trump is destroying all of it

                The way things are going for you, nobody with a half a choice would decide to migrate to the USA for work

                Adjust to your new reality pal

            • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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              17 hours ago

              Right, and that’s completely brain-dead. We should be wanting to attract more talent, because more people able to take high-end jobs usually ends up creating more high-end jobs. We want more immigrant engineers, doctors, etc, because that encourages greater investment since the labor pool is deeper.

              But no, we’ll instead block cheap imports and encourage more blue-collar work, and if we take that too far, we’ll end up in a similar situation as we did back in the Great Depression when demand just evaporates.

              We should let developing countries develop and focus on what developed countries are better at: innovation. Attract top talent and keep investment dollars flowing so the R&D jobs stay.

      • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
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        18 hours ago

        LOL losers, your education is shit compared to Chinese.
        You’ve got nothing to offer to the world.

        • Hardeehar@lemmy.world
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          18 hours ago

          Hold on, in advanced education here in my area of the states, almost half the population of students in classes I see are of Chinese or Indian backgrounds and most are here on foreign visas.

          If the education is so shit, why are there so many foreign students studying here and paying insane amounts of money to do so.

          • cyberwolfie@lemmy.ml
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            17 hours ago

            I’d think enrollment rates would be a severe lagging indicator of education quality. Institutions could likely coast on reputation for quite some time after education quality tanks. Inertia is powerful, and some could even knowingly decide to go to poor educational institutions just for the status it still gives among peers and in their community.

            That said, I have no first hand experience with US higher education, and wouldn’t know what the quality really is, just saying that enrollment rates probably aren’t a great indicator of it.

            • Hardeehar@lemmy.world
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              9 hours ago

              True, I would argue though that after a certain amount of time, nobody even cares about the quality, it’s the university name on the degree that is truly important.

              You can go anywhere on the planet even decades from now and say you’re from Harvard (take your pick) and you’ll be regarded as a knowledge god even if you were the last in the class to graduate.

              Educational quality isn’t everything for getting into a good career, it’s the reputation, and that is what schools in the US (and a few abroad) have in spades.

    • cows_are_underrated@feddit.org
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      20 hours ago

      Well yes, but actually no. BYD has quite of an advantage (also because China subsidies it), but american (and also European) companies have no incentive to actually design good quality products if BYD gets left out. At the same time CEO will try (and currently do it) to force us into working more and more for less money with less benefits while swimming in billions of dollars.

    • TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com
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      19 hours ago

      So then why do so many US companies have the CSRs in places overseas ? And manufacturing overseas ?

      Why did so many US companies decide to utilize those working conditions for labor for US companies ?