• enthusiasm_headquarters@lemmy.world
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    8 hours ago

    I’ve always felt that the new Left’s obsession with Israel veils a great deal of unprocessed anti-Semitism, twisted in knots over the rules of identity and when it’s “okay” to have one. In the 60s and up until pretty recently, it was the KKK and John Birch Society that hated Israel. Leftists, like Noam Chomsky, were defenders of Israel.

    At its core is the idea that “Jews aren’t victims anymore, but they’re allowed to contribute to the culture and express their identity as former victims of persecution, and that’s wrong.” Muddled up in this belief is all kinds of unpleasantness. Jewish people get to have their cake an eat it too, right? So it’s better to take the side of a population that has been so brutalized and manipulated that they actually believe in martyrdom.

    I saw an anti-Israel march in my city not long ago. All these white “anarchist” kids were yelling “Mothers, daughters, all are martyrs!” I see little difference between them and neonazi skinhead punks.

    • Samskara@sh.itjust.works
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      1 hour ago

      white “anarchist” kids were yelling “Mothers, daughters, all are martyrs!” I

      The alliance between progressives and Islamists is frightening and cursed.

      Self styled Anarchists flying the nationalist flag of the Palestinians is another oxymoron.

    • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
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      8 hours ago

      I saw an anti-Israel march in my city not long ago. All these white “anarchist” kids were yelling “Mothers, daughters, all are martyrs!” I see little difference between them and neonazi skinhead punks.

      Just for being anti-Israel? What?

      • enthusiasm_headquarters@lemmy.world
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        7 hours ago

        Do you believe in martyrdom? I mean… What do you think “mothers, daughters, all are martyrs” is supposed to accomplish, other than cosplaying the noble partisan.

        • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
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          7 hours ago

          “Martyrs” does not inherently mean combatant; on the contrary, in the West martyrdom is more often associated with innocence and being targeted by unprovoked violence. By calling the mothers and daughters who are slaughtered by Israel martyrs, it emphasizes the injustice of their deaths while portraying them as more than victims.

    • ayyy@sh.itjust.works
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      7 hours ago

      You….really need to expand on what you’ve said because right now you sound like a fucking monster.

      • enthusiasm_headquarters@lemmy.world
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        7 hours ago

        I do not trust the anti-Israel sympathies, or should I say “Pro-Palestine” sympathies, of most people who are not directly involved in these places. They do not seem genuine to me. I’m sorry if that makes me sound like a monster. I’ve read Finkelstein and plenty of Chomsky, too. I think Norm is a monster for telling Israelis they should leave, and I think he is making things far worse for Palestinians. There is something very self-serving about the majority of Israeli sentiment I sense from my own political side of the aisle.

        I doubt this will be a popular opinion here, and I don’t think there’s much to be gained from having to explain why I feel this way.

        • ayyy@sh.itjust.works
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          7 hours ago

          I agree with you that I have never been to Gaza. I have, however seen plenty of videos of literal hospitals and elementary schools and food lines being bombed and shot at. How can that possibly be dismissed?

        • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOP
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          7 hours ago

          I’ve read Finkelstein and plenty of Chomsky, too. I think Norm is a monster for telling Israelis they should leave, and I think he is making things far worse for Palestinians.

          I find Chomsky grotesque in his campism, but to my knowledge Chomsky has only ever called for the settlements in Palestinian territory which are illegal by international law to be abandoned.

    • ayyy@sh.itjust.works
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      7 hours ago

      (Yes I saw your other reply, thank you. I want to branch off of that conversation to address something else you said here.) What makes anti-genocide protesters “anarchist kids”? Did they say as much? Also if you don’t mind for additional context, what region are you living in/describing?