That’s well and good, but it runs into three main problems:
That’s only a valid answer if you actually carry through serious direct action in a timely fashion, and let’s face it - most of the people who swore up and down that they couldn’t possibly engage in electoral democracy because there were more effective and moral alternatives available have, quite demonstrably, not engaged in those effective and moral alternatives on any sort of serious scale.
There’s nothing stopping you from pulling the lever, which takes a very small amount of your time and energy, and attempting direct action. A vote is not a love letter, nor is it an arduous burden that will leave your back stripped of flesh and flayed to the bone. A day of your time, at most, for a very real contribution to the attempt to stop literal, immediate fascism, should be a no-brainer for someone who is deeply politically involved.
The trolley is harder to derail under the fascist conductor, who is willing and able to put a much greater variety and intensity of pressure on organizers, both against the kind used to feel-out potential revolutionaries in otherwise legitimate orgs (ie unions) and against actual clandestine cells.
I mean, sure, also vote. But all of you who are blaming protest voters (who, by the way, did not meaningfully impact the results of the election) are pointing fingers at the wrong people.
(who, by the way, did not meaningfully impact the results of the election)
You could say that about literally any voter, since we are dealing with a margin of literal millions of people, even when the difference is only a single percentage point.
But all of you who are blaming protest voters are pointing fingers at the wrong people.
In terms of who is most responsible, protest voters are way down the list. And, may I emphasize, far below abstainers.
But “They bear less responsibility than the literal fascists and the braindead, spineless corporate ghouls in the DNC” is not “They bear no responsibility”, and considering the borderline celebratory attitude towards ‘principled’ abstaining and protest voting against the antifascist coalition candidate on Lemmy, I think it bears noting that abstainers and protest voters absolutely do not have their hands clean, and that what they did was not in any way acceptable, much less a laudable act. They preferred inaction, or self-aggrandizing protest, to contributing to saving the lives of literal millions from death, torture, and general oppression from a literal fascist government.
We needed all hands on deck to put out a massive fire, and they refused. The captain was a corrupt, venal fuckwit, but it’s all of us in the hold who are going to burn now, not the officers et co.
The choice was fascism at home or fascism abroad. You’re right, no-one is entirely blameless. Harris voters must also accept responsibility for not holding their candidate to a higher standard and allowing genocide support to be an acceptable position for Democratic candidates. If we are measuring blame, it is not my principles that are at fault, but rather your lack of them.
No, the choice was fascism abroad, or fascism at home and abroad.
No one was fucking saved by idiots welcoming Trump into power.
Many more people are going to be killed by that decision, though.
You’re right, no-one is entirely blameless. Harris voters must also accept responsibility for not holding their candidate to a higher standard and allowing genocide support to be an acceptable position for Democratic candidates.
Yes, absolutely. In casting a vote for Harris, I, at minimum, cast a vote that acknowledged support of Israel’s genocide was likely to continue with the administration I empowered’s complicity.
People who want to run from the necessary implications of their choices only fool themselves.
If we are measuring blame, it is not my principles that are at fault, but rather your lack of them.
What.
Your ‘principles’ led you to abhorr Palestinian genocide so much that you…
… increased support for Palestinian genocide?
And you fault me for preferring not to increase support for Palestinian genocide?
You’re right, inaction is not the answer. See my edit.
That’s well and good, but it runs into three main problems:
That’s only a valid answer if you actually carry through serious direct action in a timely fashion, and let’s face it - most of the people who swore up and down that they couldn’t possibly engage in electoral democracy because there were more effective and moral alternatives available have, quite demonstrably, not engaged in those effective and moral alternatives on any sort of serious scale.
There’s nothing stopping you from pulling the lever, which takes a very small amount of your time and energy, and attempting direct action. A vote is not a love letter, nor is it an arduous burden that will leave your back stripped of flesh and flayed to the bone. A day of your time, at most, for a very real contribution to the attempt to stop literal, immediate fascism, should be a no-brainer for someone who is deeply politically involved.
The trolley is harder to derail under the fascist conductor, who is willing and able to put a much greater variety and intensity of pressure on organizers, both against the kind used to feel-out potential revolutionaries in otherwise legitimate orgs (ie unions) and against actual clandestine cells.
I mean, sure, also vote. But all of you who are blaming protest voters (who, by the way, did not meaningfully impact the results of the election) are pointing fingers at the wrong people.
You could say that about literally any voter, since we are dealing with a margin of literal millions of people, even when the difference is only a single percentage point.
In terms of who is most responsible, protest voters are way down the list. And, may I emphasize, far below abstainers.
But “They bear less responsibility than the literal fascists and the braindead, spineless corporate ghouls in the DNC” is not “They bear no responsibility”, and considering the borderline celebratory attitude towards ‘principled’ abstaining and protest voting against the antifascist coalition candidate on Lemmy, I think it bears noting that abstainers and protest voters absolutely do not have their hands clean, and that what they did was not in any way acceptable, much less a laudable act. They preferred inaction, or self-aggrandizing protest, to contributing to saving the lives of literal millions from death, torture, and general oppression from a literal fascist government.
We needed all hands on deck to put out a massive fire, and they refused. The captain was a corrupt, venal fuckwit, but it’s all of us in the hold who are going to burn now, not the officers et co.
The choice was fascism at home or fascism abroad. You’re right, no-one is entirely blameless. Harris voters must also accept responsibility for not holding their candidate to a higher standard and allowing genocide support to be an acceptable position for Democratic candidates. If we are measuring blame, it is not my principles that are at fault, but rather your lack of them.
No, the choice was fascism abroad, or fascism at home and abroad.
No one was fucking saved by idiots welcoming Trump into power.
Many more people are going to be killed by that decision, though.
Yes, absolutely. In casting a vote for Harris, I, at minimum, cast a vote that acknowledged support of Israel’s genocide was likely to continue with the administration I empowered’s complicity.
People who want to run from the necessary implications of their choices only fool themselves.
What.
Your ‘principles’ led you to abhorr Palestinian genocide so much that you…
… increased support for Palestinian genocide?
And you fault me for preferring not to increase support for Palestinian genocide?