Considering he is above the age of consent it is obviously NOT pedophilia.
If she had been a neighbor it would be legal. The reason it isn’t is because she is a figure of authority. Which technically from a legal perspective makes it rape.
In 14 US states it is actually legal!! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent
Are you really saying 14 states have legalized pedophilia?
Do you even remember how it is to be 16?
My sister has been happily married to her husband who is 15 years older than her for 30+ years, are you saying my brother in law is a pedophile because of the age difference?
You are judgemental and pushing your norms on other people. And it’s disgusting you have so many upvotes!
I had decided to resign from this debate, but some of the comments here, like yours are just so far beyond what lawmakers have decided in by far the most countries it’s insane. Are you also considering LGBT immoral?
It’s wrong yes, but the term pedo should be reserved for when it’s justified, which it isn’t here.
My sister has been happily married to her husband who is 15 years older than her for 30+ years, are you saying my brother in law is a pedophile because of the age difference?
I’m not the one saying pedophilia here but relationships like this entirely depend on what age they got together I feel.
Are you really saying 14 states have legalized pedophilia?
Yes, asterisk.
Asterisk:
Unless those laws specifically have something like… you as a 16 yo can consent to sex with someone 16, 17, 18, some cutoff age after which it goes back to not being ok, then yes.
(I’m fairly confident a good number of those state laws do include some kind of consideration of that)
The age differential matters.
Once it gets too much, its no longer two post-puberty kids exploring their sexuality, the difference in maturity and social status becomes manipulative and exploitative.
Do you even remember how it is to be 16?
Yes.
I was interested in girls my age, +/- one year.
Lost my virginity to a 17 yo girl, one grade above me, not my teacher, 10 years older.
When I was 26? When I am now 36?
Uh yeah, still interested in women roughly my age, though the age range has widened a bit as I get older… doesn’t get anywhere near 16 though, more like +/- 5 at 36, +/- 3 at 26.
My sister has been happily married to her husband who is 15 years older than her for 30+ years, are you saying my brother in law is a pedophile because of the age difference?
Assuming your sister, at age 16, married a 31 year old… uh yes absolutely that’s disgusting.
You are judgemental and pushing your norms on other people.
Pushing my norms, no.
I’m expressing my opinion and stances, not mandating everyone else follow them.
I find your sister and her husband’s relationship to have a disgusting origin, but I’m not going to advocate your brother in law be jailed.
That would be pushing my norms.
Judgemental? Oh sure, absolutely, guilty as charged.
And it’s disgusting you have so many upvotes!
Well now who’s judgemental?
Its the internet. People are allowed to have strong opinions.
I don’t agree with yours, you don’t agree with mine.
This is… arguably the entire point of an online discussion system?
Are you also considering LGBT immoral?
Absolutely not, no, frankly I have no clue how you could even think that would be a reasonable other position to expect me to hold…
I am queer lol, I’ve dated a trans woman, I’ve dated an ambi-gender person, bi women… I’ve gotten handsy and made out with bi and gay guys a few times… I seem to mostly go for a feminine presenting person, or a person with feminine aspects… but I’m considerably more flexible with that than your stereotypical straight man.
LGBT relationships are an entirely different thing than massive age gap relationships, I again have no clue how that seems like a reasonable assumption to jump to.
It woukd be weird and creepy if a 26 yo woman had a romantic or sexual relationship with a 16 yo girl, if a 26 yo man had a relationship with a 16 yo boy.
As are most at that age, except it would have to be +, because if you go minus 1 at 16, it’s illegal! But you do not present any real argument only your opinion.
But really that wasn’t what I meant at all, what I was referring to was the ability to decide for yourself at the age of 16. Which most countries find you can.
You just cherry picked what I said so that you could continue mischaracterize what I am saying, by continuing to say I am or support thing I am not and do not, characterize a personal anecdote and direct answer to a direct question as reasoning.
Like I explicitly gave you my reasoning and you just ignore it and say I have none.
Its especially insane that you say I was knee jerk reacting.
I took almost an hour to write that out, with intention.
It is also insane to say that my worldview is based on religious indoctrination.
To the contrary, it is largely based on a rejection of religious indoctrination.
Formalization of child marriage is one of the most horrible things that religions, or variants of them, of all kinds, all over the world, do.
But by the same logic, it can or could also be very exploitative of boys… its just that such societies that go for a child bride norm are almost always patriarchal, though i am sure many men also do not appreciate being forced into marriages.
It perpetuates a concept of women as property, not people, and normalizes and reinforces their subjugation and inherently inferior, 2nd class nature.
I struggle to comprehend the mental pretzels you must be brain bending in order to earnestly and genuinely believe all of the things you are saying, you are terrible at argumentative rhetoric and it is obvious you are being disingenuous.
You are so badly mischaracterizing what I said that I actually have to consider whether or not English is your first language, or perhaps your reading skills aren’t far beyond middle school.
Finally… yes, a larger age gap is generally much more acceptable… as the age of both partners increases.
You seem to not grasp the concept that a 25 yo and a 30 yo is pretty normal, a 40 yo and a 30 yo is… a bit weird but could work… a 35 yo and a 45 yo less weird, as they are both older…
…but a 17 yo and a 27 yo is not ok, a 20 yo and a 15 yo is not ok.
By human biology, a 14 year old is sexually mature and capable of becoming a parent. The terms “child, teen, adolescent, adult” are all social constructs. We as a society have drawn arbitrary lines and even changed them over time.
Could you elaborate? Throughout history people have successfully become parents at that age or even younger. Your flat denial is an extraordinary claim and you haven’t given any evidence to support it.
Mortality risk in pregnancy never goes to zero. Many other species (such as salmon, octopi, many insects, arachnids) have a mortality rate close to 100% for either one or both parents after reproduction. Ultimately it is a tradeoff over resources between parents and offspring. Many other mammals have smaller offspring than humans though they lack humans’ large brain volume relative to maternal pelvis size. Scientists have debated about the reasons for women’s small pelvis size relative to the baby’s skull size and the rough consensus seems to be a tradeoff between intelligence and walking/running ability as well as agility.
Your definition of sexual maturity would seem to imply that the optimal time to have children is when a woman’s maternal mortality risk is minimized but that assumes all other risks remain constant over time. They do not, especially not in the past when famine was a much greater risk and all-cause mortality was much higher (including infant and young child mortality). This means the optimal time to have children would be much earlier given that famine or disease or other misfortune could strike the family at any time and that children matured into productivity quite rapidly (children didn’t always go to school for 12 years). It should also be noted that famine and the associated loss of body fat can halt the menstrual cycle in women of any age.
Lastly, I need to point out that many traditional and indigenous communities throughout the world have or previously had initiation rites to welcome children into adulthood and full standing within the tribe at or around the age of puberty. Contemporary society with its emphasis on more and more schooling has been the primary driver of the push to longer and longer periods of adolescence. The mental health and physical development effects of such extended adolescence are only beginning to be understood.
I think that part of this narrative gets fucked because there is a fairly large segment of reporters that fantasized about getting with their cute youngish teacher back when they were in school.
This is not to say that this is ok. It isn’t. This is SA, CSA, really. And even if the teacher were teaching/seducing 18 year olds on a college campus it would still be a gross misuse of power.
One who wants a one sided deal that she snd she alone controls. There’s never a shortage or men who look for other women, but then these kind of people should adapt to an actual relationship.
“Among participants aged 14 to 24 years, the percentage having had sex increased with age, from 12.5% among females and 13.1% among males at age 14 years to more than 75% at age 19 years for both sexes.”
Just having selfish sex during your teenage years I wouldn’t call experienced. You can say…sure I’ve had sex. Probably lasted 3-4 mins, no foreplay, back of the car. Sneaking around when your parents are sleeping. Yada yada.
So while sure. You can read a stat that says… oh they do have sex…but will this satisfy the avg woman? Majority of grown men in the middle 20s can’t satisfy women or ignore foreplay. Key areas it takes for a great sexual experience.
This is power and control. Not the desire for good sex. It’s even more embarrassing that she bragged about it to her friend. What adult woman would be impressed about you taking a 16 year old home?
Thank you, this was my thought as well. I’m a woman, and it took until my mid-20s (and having an experience with another woman) for me to truly learn what sex is all about. Now in my 30s, I’d say most people I date are “experienced” at sex.
A teenager messing around with another teenager has a tiny bit of “experience,” but to think that’s the same as the sexual experience as adult has is naive. Teenagers still think porn is accurate, whereas sexually experienced adults know what to actually do.
Exactly. She’s 26 so asking “what adult woman wants an inexperienced 16 year old” is like asking “why isn’t she only dating older guys”. This kid might have similar experience to guys closer to her age. That being said it obviously wasn’t about quality of sex.
Might be a power thing, but what adult woman wants an inexperienced 16 year old?
A pedophile.
Like literally, by definition.
10 year age gap there, 26 yo woman vs 16 yo dude.
Flip the sexes around, that’s a pedophile, no argument at all.
Other than from people who really, really really feel its necesarry to ‘well actually you mean ephebophile’.
Grooming is kinda the whole modus operandi here, they get off on the power dynamic, in every way you can interperet ‘get off’ and ‘power dynamic’.
Considering he is above the age of consent it is obviously NOT pedophilia.
If she had been a neighbor it would be legal. The reason it isn’t is because she is a figure of authority. Which technically from a legal perspective makes it rape.
In 14 US states it is actually legal!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent
Are you really saying 14 states have legalized pedophilia?
Do you even remember how it is to be 16?
My sister has been happily married to her husband who is 15 years older than her for 30+ years, are you saying my brother in law is a pedophile because of the age difference?
You are judgemental and pushing your norms on other people. And it’s disgusting you have so many upvotes!
I had decided to resign from this debate, but some of the comments here, like yours are just so far beyond what lawmakers have decided in by far the most countries it’s insane. Are you also considering LGBT immoral?
It’s wrong yes, but the term pedo should be reserved for when it’s justified, which it isn’t here.
I’m not the one saying pedophilia here but relationships like this entirely depend on what age they got together I feel.
Yes, asterisk.
Asterisk:
Unless those laws specifically have something like… you as a 16 yo can consent to sex with someone 16, 17, 18, some cutoff age after which it goes back to not being ok, then yes.
(I’m fairly confident a good number of those state laws do include some kind of consideration of that)
The age differential matters.
Once it gets too much, its no longer two post-puberty kids exploring their sexuality, the difference in maturity and social status becomes manipulative and exploitative.
Yes.
I was interested in girls my age, +/- one year.
Lost my virginity to a 17 yo girl, one grade above me, not my teacher, 10 years older.
When I was 26? When I am now 36?
Uh yeah, still interested in women roughly my age, though the age range has widened a bit as I get older… doesn’t get anywhere near 16 though, more like +/- 5 at 36, +/- 3 at 26.
Assuming your sister, at age 16, married a 31 year old… uh yes absolutely that’s disgusting.
Pushing my norms, no.
I’m expressing my opinion and stances, not mandating everyone else follow them.
I find your sister and her husband’s relationship to have a disgusting origin, but I’m not going to advocate your brother in law be jailed.
That would be pushing my norms.
Judgemental? Oh sure, absolutely, guilty as charged.
Well now who’s judgemental?
Its the internet. People are allowed to have strong opinions.
I don’t agree with yours, you don’t agree with mine.
This is… arguably the entire point of an online discussion system?
Absolutely not, no, frankly I have no clue how you could even think that would be a reasonable other position to expect me to hold…
I am queer lol, I’ve dated a trans woman, I’ve dated an ambi-gender person, bi women… I’ve gotten handsy and made out with bi and gay guys a few times… I seem to mostly go for a feminine presenting person, or a person with feminine aspects… but I’m considerably more flexible with that than your stereotypical straight man.
LGBT relationships are an entirely different thing than massive age gap relationships, I again have no clue how that seems like a reasonable assumption to jump to.
It woukd be weird and creepy if a 26 yo woman had a romantic or sexual relationship with a 16 yo girl, if a 26 yo man had a relationship with a 16 yo boy.
OK that’s really enough said.
As are most at that age, except it would have to be +, because if you go minus 1 at 16, it’s illegal! But you do not present any real argument only your opinion.
But really that wasn’t what I meant at all, what I was referring to was the ability to decide for yourself at the age of 16. Which most countries find you can.
You just cherry picked what I said so that you could continue mischaracterize what I am saying, by continuing to say I am or support thing I am not and do not, characterize a personal anecdote and direct answer to a direct question as reasoning.
Like I explicitly gave you my reasoning and you just ignore it and say I have none.
Its especially insane that you say I was knee jerk reacting.
I took almost an hour to write that out, with intention.
It is also insane to say that my worldview is based on religious indoctrination.
To the contrary, it is largely based on a rejection of religious indoctrination.
Formalization of child marriage is one of the most horrible things that religions, or variants of them, of all kinds, all over the world, do.
But by the same logic, it can or could also be very exploitative of boys… its just that such societies that go for a child bride norm are almost always patriarchal, though i am sure many men also do not appreciate being forced into marriages.
It perpetuates a concept of women as property, not people, and normalizes and reinforces their subjugation and inherently inferior, 2nd class nature.
I struggle to comprehend the mental pretzels you must be brain bending in order to earnestly and genuinely believe all of the things you are saying, you are terrible at argumentative rhetoric and it is obvious you are being disingenuous.
You are so badly mischaracterizing what I said that I actually have to consider whether or not English is your first language, or perhaps your reading skills aren’t far beyond middle school.
Finally… yes, a larger age gap is generally much more acceptable… as the age of both partners increases.
You seem to not grasp the concept that a 25 yo and a 30 yo is pretty normal, a 40 yo and a 30 yo is… a bit weird but could work… a 35 yo and a 45 yo less weird, as they are both older…
…but a 17 yo and a 27 yo is not ok, a 20 yo and a 15 yo is not ok.
deleted by creator
By human biology, a 14 year old is sexually mature and capable of becoming a parent. The terms “child, teen, adolescent, adult” are all social constructs. We as a society have drawn arbitrary lines and even changed them over time.
deleted by creator
Could you elaborate? Throughout history people have successfully become parents at that age or even younger. Your flat denial is an extraordinary claim and you haven’t given any evidence to support it.
deleted by creator
Mortality risk in pregnancy never goes to zero. Many other species (such as salmon, octopi, many insects, arachnids) have a mortality rate close to 100% for either one or both parents after reproduction. Ultimately it is a tradeoff over resources between parents and offspring. Many other mammals have smaller offspring than humans though they lack humans’ large brain volume relative to maternal pelvis size. Scientists have debated about the reasons for women’s small pelvis size relative to the baby’s skull size and the rough consensus seems to be a tradeoff between intelligence and walking/running ability as well as agility.
Your definition of sexual maturity would seem to imply that the optimal time to have children is when a woman’s maternal mortality risk is minimized but that assumes all other risks remain constant over time. They do not, especially not in the past when famine was a much greater risk and all-cause mortality was much higher (including infant and young child mortality). This means the optimal time to have children would be much earlier given that famine or disease or other misfortune could strike the family at any time and that children matured into productivity quite rapidly (children didn’t always go to school for 12 years). It should also be noted that famine and the associated loss of body fat can halt the menstrual cycle in women of any age.
Lastly, I need to point out that many traditional and indigenous communities throughout the world have or previously had initiation rites to welcome children into adulthood and full standing within the tribe at or around the age of puberty. Contemporary society with its emphasis on more and more schooling has been the primary driver of the push to longer and longer periods of adolescence. The mental health and physical development effects of such extended adolescence are only beginning to be understood.
WTF? And where is 14 years state law? That’s a slippery slope argument.
deleted by creator
Maybe read again, 14 states have 16 year as the age of consent.
Where does it say 14 year? The part you quote CLEARLY says STATES!!
Enthusiasm can often beat experience.
still rape from a pedo, that things really mess with people’s brain.
hope he gets the help he needs
I was the 16 year old once, it’s a lot of things, but mostly I think it was the power trip for her.
Insecurity. “Yep I’ve still got it!”
I think that part of this narrative gets fucked because there is a fairly large segment of reporters that fantasized about getting with their cute youngish teacher back when they were in school.
This is not to say that this is ok. It isn’t. This is SA, CSA, really. And even if the teacher were teaching/seducing 18 year olds on a college campus it would still be a gross misuse of power.
Easier to train.
One who wants a one sided deal that she snd she alone controls. There’s never a shortage or men who look for other women, but then these kind of people should adapt to an actual relationship.
ask that to any pedo
It would amaze and disgust you how seasoned some of these teenage boys are.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6785975/
“Among participants aged 14 to 24 years, the percentage having had sex increased with age, from 12.5% among females and 13.1% among males at age 14 years to more than 75% at age 19 years for both sexes.”
I’m not sure how that link is relevant to the question?
He assumed the kid was inexperienced but the average age of sexual initiation in US is 17. Lot’s of boys are experienced at 16.
Just having selfish sex during your teenage years I wouldn’t call experienced. You can say…sure I’ve had sex. Probably lasted 3-4 mins, no foreplay, back of the car. Sneaking around when your parents are sleeping. Yada yada.
So while sure. You can read a stat that says… oh they do have sex…but will this satisfy the avg woman? Majority of grown men in the middle 20s can’t satisfy women or ignore foreplay. Key areas it takes for a great sexual experience.
This is power and control. Not the desire for good sex. It’s even more embarrassing that she bragged about it to her friend. What adult woman would be impressed about you taking a 16 year old home?
Creepy af.
Thank you, this was my thought as well. I’m a woman, and it took until my mid-20s (and having an experience with another woman) for me to truly learn what sex is all about. Now in my 30s, I’d say most people I date are “experienced” at sex.
A teenager messing around with another teenager has a tiny bit of “experience,” but to think that’s the same as the sexual experience as adult has is naive. Teenagers still think porn is accurate, whereas sexually experienced adults know what to actually do.
Exactly. She’s 26 so asking “what adult woman wants an inexperienced 16 year old” is like asking “why isn’t she only dating older guys”. This kid might have similar experience to guys closer to her age. That being said it obviously wasn’t about quality of sex.
Ummmmm no…. Having had sex does not make one “experienced”
There are still whole generations of both men and women who do not know what a clitoris is……