Its arguable that its better to define them by the intent of the ideology rather than just their outcomes.

First, thanks for elaborating. I welcome the challenge to my views, but now I need to counter.

they shouldn’t be advocating for copyright, i.e. don’t base your whole business model hypocrisy. “Copyright for ther but not for me”.

I never suggested that they are advocating for copyright. Utilizing the rules of a system to get ahead doesn’t mean you actively advocate for it. That said, I somewhat agree, if a small indie dev was using gen AI and then however gets litigious over people pirating their game that indicates a ruthlessness that is significantly unpalatable and I certainly would not support them. I’d view them as extremely petty and stupid to the point that the potential hypocrisy almost comes second to me though.

I do believe generative AI to be copying rather than learning, unlike humans.

I don’t see a difference. There is nothing intrinsically special about a human’s learning methods that can’t be replicated by computer systems. Even if the current generative AI methodologies wasn’t exactly the same process, that is immaterial. If I created a humanoid robot that learned to physically paint based on paintings I showed it, would that be merely “copying” instead of learning?

What if they came out with neurological enhancement implants to human brains that sped up the process of humans learning how to do art to the point that they also could trivially replicate other artist’s styles?

The difference is purely in economic consequences. In both of my questioning examples producing art becomes economically trivial, that’s the problem. The meta-physical question of whether its “art” or whether only humans are truly creative is all cope and gibberish.

The third paragraph tries to put a class barrier on good morals. Let’s assume that is true. I’d argue that anyone that has the time and money to start their own venture into game development also is quite “comfortable” and should therefore be measured by the same stick.

This is all relative/subjective and I largely just disagree. I think this is an easy position to hold if you’ve already “made it” so to speak. It comes off as someone rich tut tuting someone poorer than them for “taking shortcuts” and saying “Look, you have a computer, smart phone, a microwave! You should be happy with what you have and just work harder if you want more.”

“Good morals” is also extremely subjective. When it comes to meta-ethics, I only care about consequences, not about the virtue of individuals. Virtue only matters in my personal relationships.

Most open source is created by people in their spare time. They mostly have full time jobs to do as well, the collaboration is done for fun or as a calling to do good for the world.

Having spare time and energy to contribute to open source is a privilege in today’s society regardless of how it is achieved. You can argue that in our time of abundance this should not be the case but unfortunately it is.

Again though, I don’t view this as a negative on the part of people who contribute to open source. I strongly support such people and hope at some point I’ve reached a point in my life that I can do the same.

Yeah, I noticed.

Perhaps you could elaborate on why?

Our officials mostly lost this election. And might not even have a chance to run again.

Demanding better can be phrased in a way as to not encourage people to abstain form voting them in.

Its doesn’t really matter anymore.

Some of them are.

Not just voting, but yes engagement with the electoral system in various ways. As well as volunteer work and organizing.

But I can say I’m done with that now.

I noticed my post got nuked. Interesting.

Edit: Also “siding” with the brown shirts? I merely aim to survive them. If not, oh well at least I’m done dealing with the bullshit of being alive I guess.

EDIT:

Edit: Did he delete his comment? I can’t see it. But dude went full lib-fascist. Told me he hopes the brown shirts come for me.

A mod deleted it.

I was being a smart ass because I assumed you and your type are trying to drag me into a violent conflict and I wont engage with that, not after this election result.

Besides realistically they’ll come for both of us and then we’ll be dead and not have to worry about this shit anymore. Its laughable that we’d be able to put up a fight: we would be turned into red mist.

I’m not saying that. I’m describing cause and effect.

You need to ask yourself what is more important, consequences or virtue? Because sometimes you don’t get both.

Removed by mod

Instead, we should sprint full speed into fascism. That’ll show the fascists!

I agree.

We still should have prevented Trump from winning by more people voting Democrat.

To prevent fascists from taking power.

I feel like your missing that many people do see the Democrats as the bad guys

No I’m not. I literally said that they would. And I hold that such a black and white surface level evaluation of the situation and to then choose not to vote is aggressively fucking stupid.

And TBH, I don’t want to help stupid people if they’re going to keep dragging me into the mud. I’ve worried about politics for most of my life and worked to make things better for other people but this election has freed me to focus on helping mostly just myself and a few close people that align with me. Most other people are hopeless. I’m done swimming up a waterfall.

That is irrelevant. You don’t seem to understand the point I’m making. I’m saying the average American hears critiques and only process them at surface level and forms a black and white evaluation on that basis. This is incredibly fucking stupid.

And knowing that there are so many American’s like this: it is legitimately going to make fewer Americans vote to prevent the fascist from taking power (and did!) because they’ll feel like they’re aligning with the “bad guys” if you critique Democrats in public without a load of additional context (that some wont even absorb anyway if you provided it).

How would voting cause them to lose their job and become homeless?

A serious third party needs to start with congressional seats. Not the presidency.

Some of them also don’t want to risk being violently purged by fascists so are bowing down early.

The handful that are actually speaking out are risking being very dead.

You need to understand that American non-voters are unironically fucking stupid. They heard you complaining about Democrats and that just reinforced their decision to not vote for anyone.

Its simple cause and effect.

I don’t agree with the scolds who claim that every GenAI use is immoral by default, but I do think that the tech itself when applied within capitalist practices is immoral as it’s meant to deskill and disenfranchise workers.

All capitalist practices are immoral in functionally the same way. Capitalism works to use worker exploitation but also use of the commons for private gain. Generative AI is now part of the commons that capitalists will inevitably use for profit. The fight over worker disenfranchisement in this case was functionally instantly lost the moment generative AI became usable at all.

Anyway, any defense you can make for your “little indie game” can be made by mega-corporations using GenAI just as well.

They already do and are going to regardless. In fact, using Generative AI will likely become functionally mandatory given a capitalist market system. If you take on labor costs that other firms don’t, then you will not be able to compete. This applies to big corporations and small indie devs already. A company wont abstain from Gen AI if their competition wont and all it takes is one company to start using Gen AI.

A person working to make profit might not actually believe in copyrights. Nor hold any ideological kinship with the system they exist in.

Further, virtually all resources to do anything originated in “the commons” and the sort of person who’s trying to produce a game as their means of making money probably are just trying to get away from a miserable 9 to 5 (or not live under a bridge).

People who work and give away their shit for free are good people, but they are also usually people who are financially comfortable already. Its not right to dictate what resources some individual game dev is trying to use to make a living off their work.