Repeat after me, antizionism is not antisemitism
Yes, but I’m also anti-religion. So does that by extension also make me an antisemite?
This gets into a WHOLE problem. Jew refers to the religion, and the ethnic group. They often take the benefits of both, and people will switch which definition they are using actively during a conversation.
I can say I hate Christianity because membership is a choice. I cannot say I hate black folks, or gay folks.
Antisemitism is a hating of Jews. That’s not ok.
As OP implies, it’s better to say you hate Zionism. It’s a more specific belief that someone chooses.
That is exactly why these groups CHANGING THE DEFINITION of antisemitism to include anti Zionism is alarming and overtly evil. They’ve learned the protections of having the word Jew refer to both, and are now trying to bind Zionism in there too!
Only because you chose the nuance must you die by it
Antisemitism will truly be defeated when Jews can live anywhere in the world without fear of persecution, not when they’ve carved out their own ethnostate.
Unfortunately, I feel like these times call for explicit clarification in what should be obvious.
“…when Jews can live anywhere in the world without fear of persecution… for being Jewish” (but like everyone else can be held accountable as individuals for crimes including war crimes; that being Jewish doesn’t turn prosecution into persecution)
The fact that this needs clarification is evidence that we do not deserve a future as a species.
JFC are we fucking idiots that this needs to be spelled the fuck out.
Valid distinction thanks to Israel.
Another truth that must be addressed is that most Jewish people either actively or passively support the genocide of Palestinians. Therefore we need people like me within Judaism to call it out and people outside of Judaism to agree it’s a problem.
most Jewish people
Whether or not that’s true, I don’t think it’s the sort of claim that should be made without supporting evidence. Bear in mind that the Zionist lobby is powerful, vocal and ruthless, many people may be afraid to speak out against it. If a group can be made to feel like they are the minority, it can seem as if they really are.
I dont think there are any trustworthy statistics so ill be honest, I mostly went off my personal experience as a Jewish person and having interacted with my community extensively
I mean it is a true statistic.
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/05/30/israeli-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/
Support for the IDF among American and Israeli Jewish people alone accounts for more than half of the worldwide Jewish population. It’s not antisemitic to point out that most Jewish people worldwide support the genocide.
What is antisemitic is to dislike Jewish people in general because of it.
Just to clearify, I am Jewish. When I point out that most Jews are Zionist im making my frustration about my people clear.
This certainly appears to be true.
My government, and Israel, have made it clear that my opposition to the genocide in Gaza makes me an antisemite. I have maybe only once read of a Jewish person or group opposing this view.
So be it, I know which side of history I want to tell my young nieces and nephews I was on, so I have no problem whatsoever with any of legal issues this might cause me.
Of course, the price for Israel (and silent Jewish people) making the judgement that I and most socially liberal people are antisemites, is Jewish people are on their own, other than the far right/nazi aligned groups who support their actions in Gaza, in terms of international support from people not governments.
Edit - and as an aside, I think this new alignment indicates that a lot of the 20th century Western notions of political ‘left’ and ‘right’ are dead, ‘liberalism’ is a political double-speak (do you mean economic or social liberalism? Because they are at odds), and it isn’t Russia v. the USA, because American oligarchs and wannabe strongmen are in perfect alignment with their Russian counterparts.
Code Pink, Jewish voice for peace, Norman Finkelstein, Gabor Maté, Ilan Pappé, Noam Chomsky, Judith Butler. These are some of the Jewish folks opposing settler colonial Zionism. There is a strong Jewish tradition of being on the right side of history. Sure, Judaism is not a monolith, and sure, maybe (and this is a really big fat maybe, and I’d love to see actual data either supporting or refuting this, which is conspicuously absent from this discussion) the majority of Jews support Israel’s actions, but there is a sizable portion of Jews worldwide that oppose settler colonialism, and and even larger portion that opposes the ongoing genocide.
Better watch out. Lemmy will ban you for saying a majority of the Jewish population. Support a genocide because they are blood thirsty. Just be careful. Zionists control the subs and site.
Conspiracy much?
i poked through their recent comments and a lot of them are like this. i find it suspicious that they commit the cardinal mistake of saying “lemmy” rather than “.world” or something.
zero trust in this kind of posting lol. these are serious accusations and should be leveled seriously, not a bazillion times responding to rando comments.
A recent account at that. Possibly part of the last Reddit wave, not yet aware of the cultural differences here.
Dear newbies - Welcome! We’re glad you found your way here. All we ask is that you leave all your Reddit-baggage by the door. You won’t be needing it.
I got permabanned for harassment after commenting the Shadow tge Hedgehog copypasta.
You’re thinking of Reddit, I was banned for saying “Israel murders children” on three accounts, after the third they had enough of my non genocidal talks and perm banned me.
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??? yeah yikes wow definitely don’t say that that’s so bad bro
“Lemmy” doesn’t ban people, but certain instances might.
aka, if I get banned from Lemmy.world, I am not banned from Lemmy, just from lemmy.world.
Ok fed
The mods and admins here arent zionists, they’re zionist sympathizers and genocide apologists
Kind of reminds me of the brainwashing the media instituted about how covid was somehow a China thing and shortly after, people were attacking Asians because somehow or rather if you’re Asian, suddenly covid was all your fault. It was also just another excuse for racists to act out. Humans really are just that dumb.
People using the term anti semitic often fail to realize that the semitic people and culture not only contains Jews, but also levantine Arabs.
however, the name Semitic is a nazi invention that was originally directed towards Jews. part of their scientific racism.
it’s kind of meaningless.
like Dwight claiming an Indian coworkers is Caucasian because he claims her people came from the Caucasus.
but yhea, if we step out of semantics, fuck Israel for this genocide and using the Jewish diaspora as shields.
^^^Yes, more people need to know about this because it’s a meaningless “gotcha”
however, I’ll prefer if we included all Semitic people in the term.
because in a way, they are all related people.
Palestinians are ancestors of the ancient Canaanites just like jews are (if we ignore a lot of mixing with other genepools).
More importantly, it’s used inappropriately when talking about violence towards/hatred of the vaaaaaaaast majority of Israelis because they’re Europeans…
The people that should be hearing this won’t accept it as truth. They actively deny the Eastern European heritage of ashkenazi Jews.
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Are you alright? You can definitely say they’re African (or anything more precise like “West African” or “from the Horn of Africa”) by ethnicity, they’re just American by nationality. What else would you say? The white folks in America are European by ethnicity (mostly Germanic) and American by nationality, and their nationality didn’t just randomly turn them Native American, lol. Hopefully you were just being silly and not willfully spreading confusion…
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No, friend. I meant: these European folks may or may not be “real Jews”, but they were never Semitic.
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Can we add a 3rd truth that hamas is a death cult that has no place in today’s world. I like all 3 things equally
only if there’s a fourth truth held also equally that hamas only exists due to the obscene conditions israel has created which also have no place in today’s world yet have been funded by some of the most wealthy nations, thereby entangling the web of both israeli and palestinian blood across generations decades and borders :)
Nope. Israel and the international community gave the Palestinians an opportunity to build industry and improve their conditions and live peacefully. They gave billions and billions for this purpose without restriction (apart from military - which as history shows, appears warranted). The Palestinian people voted in Hamas who had a mandate to destroy Israel - from what I can tell is based in religious fundamentalism. Instead of building their economy and educating their population they used the money to build tunnels and pay for thousands of rockets to be fired into Israel. This was a terrible choice and there’s no denying it was a gamble on the Palestinians behalf. One that if it payed off and went to plan (as was in their mandate) would have slowly lead to the destruction of Israel. Bad gamble. Didn’t pay off, the Palestinians have to accept voting in a government who said they will destroy Israel and then consistently carrying out that plan, has at least in some large part lead them to their current circumstances.
On a similar note. Why has there been no talk of how Benjamin Netanyahu was about to go to prison for corruption - then he tried to destroy the checks and balances on government. Then he got caught knowingly funding hamas’s October 7 attack. Clearly all to hold onto power yet no one talks about this anymore?
No
And what an irony that you blame all of that on Palestine, but then also complain about the man who made sure to disrupt the people who wanted peace.
It’s only irony if you realize that what I am saying is that neither side is right or innocent. Both sides have expressed their shitty nature. Pretending one side is right does an injustice to those on both sides who actually are innocent and willing to bargain in good faith.
Zionists should do the world the favor and just go away from the public eye. Y’all are garbage opinions parading like nazis.
Can you point me to the part of my comments that make you think I’m a Zionist?
I know, it’s the part where you put an equivalence between the Zionist occupiers and the resistance to that illegal occupation. Regardless of the ideology of the occupied people, they have a right to armed resistance enshrined in international law. The occupier has zero rights in this context, just the responsibility to end the occupation and until then, provide for the needs of the occupied, which Israel has utterly disregarded on both accounts. So saying “both are as bad” in this context makes you a clear supporter of the Zionist atrocities, the resistance is exercising it’s human right to armed resistance to occupation. You know, like when jewish Partizans killed during WWII. Calling that equally as bad as the Nazis would in effect make you a Nazi supporter.
This user is a victim of propaganda.
No this one is?
So. When is enough dead children enough for you? Will you stop when they’re all dead? Or will you just move onto another country?
You know, hamas murder people for being gay right? How many dead gay people is enough for you?
I have yet to see any proof for this claim. As far as I know, Hamas doesn’t kill queer people, at least not systematically. They face violence, no doubt about that and that’s already bad enough, but stick to the facts here instead of making shit up.
And #4 that a people under brutal occupation has a right to resist, even armed resistance?
Which part of Palestinian combatants being joined by non combatants and then invading and murdering and kidnapping 1200 civilians is considered “resisting.”
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Man, someone should have told Bibi that before he funded Hamas for years. That’s embarrassing!
Most likely by design. It annoys me that this doesn’t get brought up everyday
Also not mentioned too much is how Egypt and the other Muslim nations refuse to help or take people in from Gaza.
Why does it have to be Muslim countries?
They’re geographically closer for one thing. They have a shared faith, this war is a rather relugious one. They shouldn’t be the only countries accepting refugees, but they should certainly be among them.
Thank you for providing a thoughtful response.
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Ya never ever bring up that annoying little fact. Most of their neighbors would refuse them entrance. And a lot of of them are happy to arm them and fund the extremist behavior. It’s almost like the whole world is involved in this little proxy war! A microcosm of WW3
Why does it have to be Muslim countries?
Only if we add in recognition that Hamas would not without Israel. You can kill two birds with one stone.
I got banned from a .blahaj community for saying “hamas bad” for, I quote, “Genocide apologia”.
Some peep here are literal extremists.
I don’t advocate adventurism, but important to note that violence against jews is different than violence against Israeli state actors.
Just in case this meme is referencing the recent shooting of two Israeli Embassy workers. Again, I don’t advocate adventurism, but it’s important to recognize a distinction between violence directed at an ethnic group and violence directed at government officials.
other violence than those two victims going on unfortunately. both preceding and since, and civilians.
Like the time that Israeli shot those 2 Israelis in the US.
or those poor people who got attacked with a flamethrower literally today (this is breaking news btw im not fully caught up so apologies for any error)
Unless there was a different incident, i’m pretty sure the one you’re talking about was a molotov cocktail, not a flamethrower.
again, already apologized. breaking news: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/colorado-fire-attack-live-updates-rcna210305
This is so true. I remember hearing about the two Israeli officials who were shot and I was stuck thinking: " was this motivated out of antisemitism and he just happened to hit legitimate targets instead of some innocent folks, or was the guy actually acting out of rage and sadness for what he’s seen in Gaza?". Nowadays it seems like you can’t even tell immediately - like you’ve gotta wait for more info. It was a relief to find out that everyone who knew the shooter agreed that he was not antisemitic, and chose to platform justice for Gaza when asked about the shooter.
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I wouldn’t say israeli leaders are antisemitic, but they accuse their critics of antisemitism to pursue their authoritarian and colonial agenda with impunity.
hi spujb did u know the jews invented hash browns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latke
yes! shoutout jewish ppl
They also created the bagel, no? Love me a plain bagel as the buns if a breakfast sandwich. God. Now I’m hungry.
This would be perfect just if you would put zionists in the place of isreali leaders
Fuck Israel, genocidal scum!
What about all the Jewish people in Israel and around the world actively contributing to, relishing in, and celebrating what’s happening? Can we talk about them?
What about all the non-Jewish people in Israel and around the world actively contribution to, relishing in, and celebrating what’s happening? Can we talk about them?
What about all the Jewish people in Israel and around the world actively protesting against, writing against, and decrying what’s happening? Can we talk about them?
There’s idiots and great people in all ethnicities, and not understanding that fact is being incredibly simple-minded.
No, the only solution clearly is to light up the gas chambers again.
/s
