We could debate this all day, but it is irrelevant to the question of democracy. If we want democracy, everyone must band together to fight fascism. Fascism kills democracy.
Liberalism is incapable of fighting fascism, if liberals were to support the socialist project (this doesn’t happen), fine lmao, but for socialists to abandon creating an alternative to fascism to support liberalism, which is what liberals really mean when they say “work together”, is self-destructive.
We’ve seen what happens when liberals get their way; fascism grows stronger and any alternative is crushed, until liberals are ready to hand over power.
This is factually untrue if you learn history. The only times fascism was defeated is when capitalists, socialists, anarchists, liberals, leftists, etc join together against fascism.
You know liberals and capitalists are kinda the same thing? Liberalism is the philosophy of capitalism, and anarchists and socialists are both leftists?
Also the entire lead up to WW II had the socialists trying to ally with literally anyone to deal with Germany, but was rejected, as France and Britain signed Non-Aggression Pacts with Germany and gave them and Poland Czechslovakia in hope that Poland and Germany would invade the USSR and deal with what they perceived as a greater threat. Britain literally tried to join the winter war on the side of Finland and Germany.
The point is even in WWII, the liberals preferred fascism to socialism until they were literally being invaded, and if the socialists supported the liberals aims, the fascists would have won.
The socialists in Germany were getting murdered by fascist paramilitaries the liberals armed in the 20s, and fighting them in the streets in the 30s while the liberals’ policies continued to nurture them. If you think that having socialist in the name meant the nazis were socialist, I invite you to eat a urinal cake, then actually study history.
Not really. The National Socialist Party drew in strong socialist support with its talk of uniting the workers and a strong social support system. The fascists used the socialist’s votes to gain power and then betrayed them on the Night of Long Knives. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives
The socialists voted for the KDP candidate. Hitler didn’t gain power with socialist votes, the liberals promoted Hindenburg as a unity candidate, and won, Hindenburg proceeded to staff the government with nazis and made Hitler chancellor, unifying against the socialists. The nazis “socialist” side were no more socialist than Israelis who romanticize kibutzim as communes.
Sorry, but it’s absurd to claim all socialists voted for one candidate. The KDP was a minor party in the Weimar period after the failed Spartacist uprising, getting only about 10% of the vote. Many socialists, especially war veterans, were social Democrats who were anti-communist (anti-Bolshevik really). They flocked to Hitlers nationalist, anti-banker (aka Jew), pro-veteran rhetoric. Once Hitler had gained power, he no longer needed the socialist elements of the party and purged them to make way for his authorization takeover.
(Note that I am absolutely not anti-socialist. Quite the opposite really. I just recognize that people are fallible and socialists have fucked up in the part too)
We could debate this all day, but it is irrelevant to the question of democracy. If we want democracy, everyone must band together to fight fascism. Fascism kills democracy.
Liberalism is incapable of fighting fascism, if liberals were to support the socialist project (this doesn’t happen), fine lmao, but for socialists to abandon creating an alternative to fascism to support liberalism, which is what liberals really mean when they say “work together”, is self-destructive.
We’ve seen what happens when liberals get their way; fascism grows stronger and any alternative is crushed, until liberals are ready to hand over power.
This is factually untrue if you learn history. The only times fascism was defeated is when capitalists, socialists, anarchists, liberals, leftists, etc join together against fascism.
You know liberals and capitalists are kinda the same thing? Liberalism is the philosophy of capitalism, and anarchists and socialists are both leftists?
Also the entire lead up to WW II had the socialists trying to ally with literally anyone to deal with Germany, but was rejected, as France and Britain signed Non-Aggression Pacts with Germany and gave them and Poland Czechslovakia in hope that Poland and Germany would invade the USSR and deal with what they perceived as a greater threat. Britain literally tried to join the winter war on the side of Finland and Germany.
The point is even in WWII, the liberals preferred fascism to socialism until they were literally being invaded, and if the socialists supported the liberals aims, the fascists would have won.
We could argue the semantics of different philosophies all day. The point is that everyone has to put their differences aside to fight fascism.
And what were the socialists in Germany doing in the lead up to WW2? (Hint: what is Nazi short for?)
The socialists in Germany were getting murdered by fascist paramilitaries the liberals armed in the 20s, and fighting them in the streets in the 30s while the liberals’ policies continued to nurture them. If you think that having socialist in the name meant the nazis were socialist, I invite you to eat a urinal cake, then actually study history.
Not really. The National Socialist Party drew in strong socialist support with its talk of uniting the workers and a strong social support system. The fascists used the socialist’s votes to gain power and then betrayed them on the Night of Long Knives. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives
The socialists voted for the KDP candidate. Hitler didn’t gain power with socialist votes, the liberals promoted Hindenburg as a unity candidate, and won, Hindenburg proceeded to staff the government with nazis and made Hitler chancellor, unifying against the socialists. The nazis “socialist” side were no more socialist than Israelis who romanticize kibutzim as communes.
Sorry, but it’s absurd to claim all socialists voted for one candidate. The KDP was a minor party in the Weimar period after the failed Spartacist uprising, getting only about 10% of the vote. Many socialists, especially war veterans, were social Democrats who were anti-communist (anti-Bolshevik really). They flocked to Hitlers nationalist, anti-banker (aka Jew), pro-veteran rhetoric. Once Hitler had gained power, he no longer needed the socialist elements of the party and purged them to make way for his authorization takeover.
(Note that I am absolutely not anti-socialist. Quite the opposite really. I just recognize that people are fallible and socialists have fucked up in the part too)