I need to install an OS for someone whose first impulse upon seeing a screen is to touch it, because they are young and their first assumption is a touchscreen.
They know their way around Windows and Windows is probably tought to them at school, so Windows might actually be the smart move… but I fucking hate it.
Is ZorinOS or similar polished enough that I can leave it to someone whose tech literacy is centered around Roblox, TikTok and evading parental locks? I don’t want to normalize the Windows-bullshit. But I don’t want their first Linux-experience to be frustrating.
I’m hearing a lot of very poor advice in here, at least from my perspective as a Linux user who’s been through the gamut of various distros over the years.
Fedora atomic desktops are not beginner distros. That is not their purpose, and their limitations make many things a person may eventually want to do with their machine a lot more complicated.
Debian? Are we joking here? Debian is an amazing distro for what its purposes are, but it’s not beginner friendly. Debian is bare bones.
Linux Mint is the easiest answer here. Ubuntu LTS (or its classroom based fork edubuntu) is another great answer. I know every Linux user on the internet recoils in horror at the mention of Ubuntu but it really is a drop in plug and play solution for kids and old people.
The only thing I still don’t like much about recommending Linux Mint to beginners is that their Cinnamon desktop still uses Xorg which has some horrible display tearing on some Nvidia graphic cards (can be usually fixed with some tinkering and this is also only my personal experience), which is usually not a thing with Wayland and being Xorg it also means it has inferior touchpad gestures (surely not as smooth as Gnome or KDE) which can be important for notebook users. While being very user friendly it is one of the more resource heavy DE’s I would say even more than Gnome or KDE. It also seems to have some problems with battery life? The official Gnome and KDE desktop packages for Linux Mint are pretty outdated, are still Xorg versions and aren’t officially supported AFAIK (maybe there are some good community maintained packages). Otherwise I agree it’s one of the best choices.
My personal favorite for beginners is Fedora Workstation or KDE edition, because it’s up to date and fairly hassle free and stable (except the frequent kernel updates which sometime cause issues, but booting the older kernel is straightforward) and does not much modify its packages from the original or push their products on you like Ubuntu.
I think I’m running Wayland on my mint today. Not that I ever cared, and my card is NVIDIA and i don’t remember spending much time instaling its drivers
their limitations make many things a person may eventually want to do with their machine a lot more complicated.
Like what?
Using literally anything that requires an out of tree kernel module, for one. Have some peripherals with features that aren’t supported by drivers already present in the kernel? Good luck getting any DKMS packages running on your machine.
I followed the path Mint>Fedora>openSUSE.
Wanna know my experience? I had issues daily with screen tearing on mint, even though I had the NVIDIA drivers they were probably too old on Mint for my graphics card. The desktop wouldn’t load, I had errors on starting and on shutting down Mint. I spent more time troubleshooting Mint than working.
I said fuck it and decided to give fedora (actually Universal Blue’s Aurora, which is atomic and fedora-based).
It was pure bliss.
Everything just worked out of the box to the point that I was confused as to why everything was working so well. The only thing I had to “learn” was how to use distrobox through BoxBuddy, which took a whopping 30 minutes of research or so.
Now I moved to OpenSUSE Tumbleweed and it feels like going back in time. I know my OS is not as secure due to not being atomic, I have to run the command line daily for updates, and the initial setting up would have been intimidating for a beginner. But at least it also hasn’t given me problems yet, unlike what happened with Mint.
So IMO Mint should not be recommended to beginners, unless their device is very old. The architecture of atomic distros is very familiar to anyone who has a smartphone today, which is practically everyone. You can go to the software store and download Flatpaks as seamlessly as you do on the Google Play or Apple Store, and you can even change the apps permitions using Flatseal. Best of all, you get an OS that is secure, possibly self-updating and self-healing, which is what you want if you want your device to just work without troubleshooting.
I haven’t done it yet, but when my wife wants to change her laptop, I’ll 100% install a self-maintaining atomic distro for her.
Three years ago when I used Mint I had minimal issues, but it sounds like things have declined since then.
My path went something like Pop_OS>Mint>Fedora Workstation>Mint>MXLinux>Nobara>EndeavourOS>Fedora Workstation for a solid year>and back to endeavour with hyprland.
But that’s just the stuff I’ve installed and actually kept longer than a few days. I’ve installed silverblue, kinoite, openSUSE tumbleweed, bluefin, bazzite etc just to learn them, and honestly I just don’t see the use case for average users in atomic distros. Non atomic distros are entirely stable if you don’t do stupid things with them, and doing stupid things with them is a great learning experience.
Same old Linux differences in opinion.
And best of all, you get an OS that is secure, which traditional Linux distros aren’t due to every app having root access by default.
What? Which distro runs everything as root by default?
In traditional distros, apps dependencies are mixed with system files. In atomic distros you use flatpaks which are containerized and don’t see system files.
This is what I mean. I understand you can also install Flatpaks in traditional distros, but most people don’t install only flatpaks.
I know that, but that does not give apps root access. Unless you mean something else by root access than being run with root privileges
It’s not my opinion. The distribution architect at SUSE said so in reference to RPMs.
I imagine it isn’t much different for other non-containerized file types.
Alright. So…, that’s one thing. Got more where those came from? I’m just asking because you said “… many things …” previously.
Edit: Just to be clear, I acknowledge that’s a big thing (at least for some). So I’m not trying to underplay it or anything*. And I agree that by itself, it may constitute sufficient of a reason for some to rightfully not consider these distros.
Using toolbox to force out of tree software to function is not nearly as simple going to the discover app and clicking “download”
Remember we’re talking about a kid. Not a power user. We’re talking about people that don’t know and don’t want to know what a kernel module is. Are those extra steps fine for you? Great, knock yourself out. They aren’t feasible for a child or grandmother who wants to just click shit and see it launch.
I use EndeavourOS without a desktop environment and install and configure Hyprland for myself. I enjoy those extra steps. Someone unfamiliar with my system wouldn’t even be able to open the web browser. That’s fine for me. I’m not going to suggest it for my 74 year old father in law. He uses Ubuntu.
Is it making sense yet?
Aight, gotcha. That whole business with “out of tree kernel modules” and having to “use toolbox to force out of tree software to function” definitely sounds like a pain, especially for the kind of user OP was talking about. I can see why those would be headaches in that specific context.
It’s just, when I first read that original line about atomic distros making “…many things a person may eventually want to do with their machine a lot more complicated,” my brain kinda went, ‘Whoa, many things? Like, for anybody who might want to dig in a bit more eventually, beyond OP’s initial scenario?’
So, hearing about the driver stuff and the app install workarounds… yeah, those are definitely a couple of solid examples that start to flesh out what ‘many things’ could mean, even in that wider sense. Helping me connect some dots, for sure. Still kinda leaves you wondering what else is on the ‘many things’ menu, eh? :P
I second any recommendation for a kde based distro. Ubuntu or it’s derivatives are the easiest place to start. Kubuntu is the kde based flavor iirc.
My daughter just turned 6 and is competent with a mouse and keyboard. They have kid friendly houses and keyboards on Amazon for cheap. She’s been daily driving slackware since she was 4 and has no idea how badass she is yet.
Gcompris is a great app. It’s a bunch of games for kids to learn letters, typing, mouse skills and some stuff just for fun. Install it on whatever distro you land on. Also, tuxpaint.
Kid friendly houses? In this economy?
I’ve heard good things about the Gnome desktop environment. Ubuntu uses gnome, maybe linux mint you can get gnome on that. Perhaps fedora too.
Get a PineTab2 and put GCompris on it. If you want a distribution specifically oriented toward pedagogy consider https://primtux.fr/
IMHO though the distribution itself does not matter. What matters is what software you make available for the user and what rights you let them have, e.g. installing apps or adds-ons vs not, Website controls vs not, etc.
Its a pretty dependent question.
Depending on your hardware, I’d say if you consider compatibility first.
Touchscreen is something you mentioned, I’ve used lenovo laptops that have built in touchscreen that work well on fedora.
They want something close to windows then I say Linux mint.
I have used Linux mint with various ages past 2 years. Very on levels from beginner to complete non tech users. On those that need compatibility with various applications close to windows. Regular Linux mint
On users that just require basic internet and document usage (aka a word like application) Linux mint debian edition (why? Less complicated, for non tech savy people). Less configuration means lower chances of issues popping up.
TLDR base your decision on peoples needs, and your ability to assist with what they have. Right tool for the job. Hope this helps.
Any distros with Plasma or Cinnamon as it’s DE will do the trick. Linux Mint is a good starting choice.
Gnome + flatpack with no sudo privileges and your golden
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just a heads up last I checked roblox wasn’t officially supported on Linux, though this may have changed in the last 6 months.
there’s an app called Sober on flathub, developed by creators of Vinegar. i use it to play roblox and i can say it works without any issues. the setup is really simple, since it dowloads everything by itself
It’s broken because of anti cheat. I believe it’s possible to use the android version though.
I really wish we’d stop saying “anti cheat” and start saying “system compromising rootkit software”
Yeah, if it requires kernel level access, I consider it malware. Not all anti cheat requires a rootkit and some even works on wine when the game developers allow it. It’s still not good for privacy, but at least you can play the game from a user account with limited access and keep your data safe.
How about blendOS? It’s Linux with android built in.
Maybe NixOS.
KDE Plasma offers a UI similar to Windows out of the box, I would say that’s a good start. Introduce them to the endless customisation options and they might start to dig it. Maybe take a distro aimed at gaming like Bazzite.
Other good options inlcude OpenSUSE or Linux Mint, the latter with another, but also similar feeling desktop.
Although caution is advised, this is a slippery slope to becoming a programmer.
Mint, Pop!OS, or Unbuntu LTS
Ok, let me rephrase this:
Your kid is too young to understand the concept of a mouse, but they arent young enough to not use Tiktok, a Social media known for killing even young adults attention time. And for some reason they are thought how to use a PC? To a 5-7 year old?
That aside, I recommend using literally Any OS and just making a guest user excluded from the sudoers file. To install new Apps, just use flatpak at user level, and for roblox theres Sober
I would just like to say that I really appreciate everyone’s contributions so far; even the little off-topic discussions.
But you are completely misjudging the situation. When I spoke of “first assumption”, said they "know their way around Windows" and stated they found ways around prior parental locks, I was actually referring to the fact that “my kid” hasn’t even been born yet. We’ve just slipped two iPads in, one with a YouTube-Kids Elsa Gate loop and the other constantly doom scrolling TikTok and Twitter.
I’m definitely not talking about someone who is a several years older than I was, when I got my first internet connected PC.
Sarcasm aside; they are more than old enough, according to their actual parents. They had a phone for quite some time; same for a Windows notebook. I just happen to have a better notebook laying around, but feel like Windows is sort of shit, and I need a little help with judging if Linux is the right call.
If you are not the Parent, the kid has going to have a hard time with Linux if you arent availible 24/7 for them to ask. Linux takes some getting used to, and if not even the Parents know anything about it, they are not going to be able to lock down Linux enough
My guess is that if most things “just work”, Linux may be fine. I mean, there’s a whole second laptop available and I’m reachable most of the time. I just don’t want to play support all the time.
I’m also not that worried about locking things down. The parents can’t even lock down Windows properly and have resorted to restricting internet time via a router setting. It’s MAC based, and I think if the kid figures out how to change MAC addresses, they deserve a little extra Roblox time until the parents notice.
At the moment I think I’ll sit down with them and we’ll set this thing up together. That way I can teach them a bit about the differences and show them cool things like ad blocking or Steam and see how they do by themselves … and then make my (hopefully final) decision.
Fedora Silverblue is basically Android.
You click on apps in a software store to install, it updates itself (without you noticing) on reboot, the terminal is entirely optional and almost entirely useless.Why is the terminal useless?
She’s exaggerating
VERY much.
I daily drive Silverblue (and the terminal is not useless >:c), and in a vacuum I would probably install Silverblue or another atomic desktop. But I worry about Windows compatibility.
Imagine the feeling when “you just click the .exe and everything installs itself” works for everyone but you. It doesn’t matter that downloading executables from random websites is way worse than a proper package manager in pretty much every way.
It’s still alienating. Going along with everyones technical dept may still be a nicer experience, because at least it doesn’t require the effort of doing something different.
That’s what I’m worried about.
I totally understand where you’re coming from, and I’m pessimistic that any flavor of Linux will be an acceptable experience for the person you’re describing. Something like Silverblue may be least obstrusive, but compatibility will still be a prominent problem.
Alternatively, you could show them surface level cool stuff that’s easier to do with Linux. Like blocking all ads, running your own Minecraft server, downloading YouTube videos, building your own PC with cheap parts (and maybe even pirating movies and TV shows, depending on your own practices and relationship to that person). There’s a lot to love about Linux even if you don’t care about privacy and open software as abstract values.
