My general assumption for the lowest I can expect a person to behave is basically always looking for their own absolute gain, and any attitude towards other people comes secondary to that. So while a person living by this standard wouldn’t donate to charity without some other motive, they would have basically the same answer to something like the trolley problem as anyone else.
Am I wrong thinking of this as a “minimum reasonable behavior”, or is there something people actually gain from the suffering of other people?
This question was born out of seeing how people are being treated by the US government at the moment, but I’m asking about more than just that. People like abusive partners/family, hostile cops, or just bullies in general.
It’s ansiolotic. Like people who do drugs or have compulsive behaviors. Some people feel better after hurting others. Usually because they have been hurt themselves.
This was partly explored in Erich Fromm’s work “Escape from Freedom” and “The Anatomy of Human Destruction”, but basically, if I understood correctly, sadistic personalities use it as a means of defence against loneliness and isolation. By exerting power over another, they temporarily lose the painful feeling of being alone. Abusive people tend to be miserable when their victims leave them and they have nobody to control.
Nobody gains anything from cruelty, it’s a symptom that something’s terribly wrong with the person in the first place. Even animals don’t display acts of cruelty in the wild, they do so only when confined to cages and subjected to other inhumane treatment.
The book John Dies at the End has a line I’m going to have to paraphrase that says something to the effect of “cruelty is the purest display of power”, and it makes sense. You do something you know they don’t like, but for whatever reason, they’re forced to take it. Not fighting back is an implicit agreement that the cruel one has more power.
A sense of arbitrary power and control.
cruelty is a tool by which you enforce your will over a large population.
citizens not behaving? remove gun laws that put children at risk.
citizens not worshipping you? take away their ability to provide for their families.
citizens rebellious against you? violently capture them in public and send them to a dark hole never to be seen from again.
funny thing about cruelty is, if you must be cruel be decisive and quick. let no more suffering happen than what is needed. people who live in unnecessarily cruel environments tend to stop being afraid after awhile…and then the riots start.
Here’s another take. I think some people would never act cruel towards their equal yet they can easily act cruel if they believe another human to be someone less than their equal.
This is why during war times it is common to develop nasty names and personas of the individual enemies.
This is how I see it too. To make themselves appear stronger, pick on “weaker” people/creatures. Some major internal issues going on.
Intrinsic sadism is a thing, and it’s more common than you might think. Usually the same people also have empathy, though, and they’re constantly working against each other. I can’t really comment on what percentage of that group gives in to it, or what it’s subjectively like.
This is exactly it. Hurting things, destroying things, these are pleasurable behaviours. Look at how young children play, how we have to teach them to be gentle with animals until they can develop enough empathy to be trusted.
Empathy is what counterbalances the pleasure of sadism. If you feel bad you hurt something, that’s a pain that is much greater than the pleasure a normal person gains from sadism.
Some people, on purpose or by accident, have shitty empathy.
Yep. Kids are a great example, actually. They do what adults learn to hide. That being said, it’s not universal either. You see tender kids that want to be friends with worms sometimes.
I think it’s formed if you cope hard enough to believe in us vs them (as in believing there’s a fundamental difference between you and people you disagree with) and also tap into fear(these people aren’t just different, they want to take what you have and everything you value) then you can take pleasure in other people’s suffering. it’s disgusting and I fear most of the country is no longer capable of empathy
I think your assumption that personal gain being the main driving force behind everyone’s behavior is flawed. That may be true of humanity in general, but it is not true of a great many individual humans. Mental health is a multi-axis spectrum and very few of us are right in the center. There are many factors that can push people to do things against their best interests.
There’s some distinction to be made too between cruelty, and just plain apathy, dissociation, or whatever (I’m tired and struggling to word today).
When you mow down a heap of homes in Sim City you feel nothing because you’re not linking your actions to a real impact on actual people. All you have in mind is that if you do it, you’ll be able to use the space for something else that works better for you.
To some people, that’s how they view the world.
A feeling of power.
A feeling of power, a sense of pleasure by ruining it for someone. The reasons are many, and each more despicable than the other.
Some people like to know they’ve made an impact on others, that they control them and their feelings. They like the idea that they’re living rent-free in someone’s brain. Being awesome, kind, contributive, etc is one way of doing that but it takes effort. Being cruel is another, usually easier, way to do it.
Same reason people smash stuff up and spray shitty graffiti - it’s far easier to destroy than to build but both kinds of ‘work’ get noticed.
In addition to what others here have already said: Sometimes what they gain is a feeling of power and/or control.
This can play a role in the vicious cycle of abuse. People feel powerless because they are abused. To regain power they abuse others. Then they are the ones in control of the situation.
Assholes want relative gain, not absolute.
