This is quite recent but I’ve been browsing Lemmy a bunch lately and quite often I see extreme grammatical errors.
I’m not talking about like, incorrect stylistic choices between commas and dashes, or an improper use of ellipses or missing commas or incorrect use of apostrophes in its/it’s or in multiple posessive articles or just plain typos or any nitpicky grammar nazi shit like that, but just basic spelling specifically.
It’s one thing when you can’t spell some pretty uncommon words and you’re too lazy to look it up and/or use autocorrect, but it’s a completely different league to misspell very basic words, very recently I saw someone spell “extreme” as “extream” which is just kind of baffling, I actually can’t even imagine how one would make such a mistake?
And it’s not been an isolated thing either, I’ve seen several instances like that lately.
Am I going crazy? Is it just me?
You are going crazy. I’ve been on the internet since like 1992 and have spent many, many years reading forums and playing text-based role playing games, and this is very not new. Spelling has always been awful because the internet isn’t a formal medium where that stuff matters to most people. If anything it’s probably gotten better since the advent of smart phones with built in auto-correct.
OP’s browsing habits likely recently changed to a place on the web with more English as a second language users. Those kinds of misspellings are pretty common with people who learned a lot of their English from streaming Youtube and other online shows
No they haven’t changed at all. I’ve been using mostly Lemmy as my one and only SM for most of the past year and this is a very new phenomenon to me. I’m also not a native English speaker at all, my mother tongue doesn’t even share the Latin alphabet
Well I guess I don’t know the timing but I wouldn’t be surprised it Lemmy was it - there are a bunch of non-native English speakers here
Are you fucking dense? I just told you that I’m also ESL, I don’t make such typos, it’s no excuse at all and makes it make not an iota more sense than saying the pigs are flying hence people’s spelling fell off a fucking cliff.
Lemmy is def not it, I moved here a year or more ago, the spelling has gotten very bad very recently and I only use this platform pretty much and this is where I’ve seen it the most by far.
It’s the opposite. People learning English as a second language are typically much better spellers. Only a native speaker would misspell extreme that way
I think you’re overestimating the average quality of English as a second/third language education. The internet continuously becomes more accessible across the globe, which has overlap with lower quality and lower frequency of English lessons. There’s more exposure from speakers that don’t use the same native alphabet as well, so use is not so universal. When speaking is the primary use of language, reading is secondary, and writing is tertiary, mistakes get interesting. It’s not too hard to hear the word “extreme” but visualize the spelling from words like dream, team, cream, or beam, all words I could see being more commonly used than extreme. It’s easier to learn “very” as a modifier to a common adjective.
Source: I work in the US with mixed central/south American-born employees and travel to Mexico often. I see casual US-sourced mistakes, of course, as well as those distinctly from Spanish-speaking writers. My Spanish is just as incorrect. If you can say it out loud and still make sense, I’ll vote for non-native English speakers every time as the cause
Schools literally prefer to hire foreigners as English teachers because their English is better.
Just because a school has an entire ESL department taught by ESL speakers does not mean all ESL speakers are qualified to teach ESL.
American here:
About 20% of Americans are functionally illiterate, 2nd grade or worse reading and writing skills.
The average literacy level of Americans is between 5th and 6th grade… meaning the next 30% have the reading/writing skills of someone who basically only conpleted elementary school.
These are numbers for adults 18 and up, by the way, not kids.
Almost every single person I’ve met who learned English as a second language… can speak it more fluently than most native English speakers I’ve known who grew up in America. More extensive vocabularies, better grammar, better spelling.
And this will get worse.
Covid resulted in a year to two years of remote or missed classes for Gen Alpha, and the Repulicans look poised to finally kill off the public education system in all but the wealthier, solid blue states. Department of Education will be disbanded by the end of the year or earlier if nobody stops it.
As a non native English speaker I have more difficulty constructing my sentences in ways that make sense in English. It’s a lot harder to put my ideas into text in a coherent way that sounds right in English than it is spelling the words correctly, especially with auto correct and syntax highlighting
Apparently this post is not an example of that issue since your sentence structure in this comment is perfect.
I get the problem you’re describing, it does happen to me as well, but OP is specifically talking about spelling, which I generally do find to be worse in posts from native speakers
I’ve always experienced the opposite - native English speakers are horrible at spelling because they don’t have to put any effort into comprehending the language, vs non-native speakers who frequently have to take ESL tests for either academia, work, or immigration, and therefore had more exposure to spelling practice.
Bruh slept through 13 years of English lessons 😂
Lessons are forgotten fast. Ask an adult to do 3 digit multiplication and watch them fumble. Ask about geometry and they’ll ask Google for a calculator. I don’t remember how to do projectile physics. All the same for English. If all a person does is speak the language while writing very simple messages (in comparison to English essays), the memory of complex synthesis is lost fast. If they’re not continuing to do those tasks in life, it’s gone.
I agree. My experience doesn’t really align with the idea that ESL learners are better spellers. English is a conventional language, so it’s not like there is a dictated spelling. Spelling is just a convention.
That would depend on how long they’ve been studying the language for, and their goals/needs in language learning. Someone who needed to learn English and pass formal tests for the sake of employment or immigration will eventually reach that level, but someone who either hasn’t been studying that long or doesn’t consider it a critical priority because they’re just browsing English websites and media for fun might not.
My guess is it’s just the frequency illusion, because they’re also super common among Americans who have only ever spoken English from birth. My theory is that these types of misspellings (like ‘itsplain’ instead of ‘explain’) are from folks who don’t read a lot and therefore seem to be guessing on spelling based on what they’ve (mis)heard rather than having seen it on the page/screen enough to notice the correct spelling.
Idk I swear to god it wasn’t this bad like 6 months ago, nevermind 10 years ago. Again, I’m not talking about formality or punctuation, but basic grammar like spelling which as you said should be taken care of by autocorrect and I did notice an improvement sometimes around the mid-2010s, but very recently there’s been a noticeable decline, at least in my opinion.
What possible cause could there be for lots of people to suddenly start spelling worse? Wait, this isn’t another of those ‘smart phones are making us dumb!’ posts is it? Cause people have said that about pretty much every invention since the printing press. It’s probably just the frequency illusion, where you notice something for no particular reason and then start seeing it everywhere, especially if you’re only noticing changes over the period of a few months. Spelling was every bit as bad in 1995 as it is in 2025. Maybe worse due to the lack of access to spell-checking, auto-correct, online dictionaries, etc, and you can notice it especially in people who don’t read much (which is how you get spellings like ‘itsplain’ instead of ‘explain’, it seems like they’re guessing based on what they’ve (mis)heard instead of seeing it on the page/screen) even long before smart phones were a thing.
Not saying it is, but accidental, quality degrading, changes to a major/prevalent auto-correct system could result in what OP is claiming. Just to give an example.
I don’t think most people realize how much they rely on auto correct when they are on a phone. When I switched to a new keyboard because I like local hosting my voice recognition the auto correct was initially way worse and my typing speed went down by maybe half.
This is it. Gboard autocorrect has felt shittier to me recently as well, so I turned it off. I wonder if there’s been any changes.
That’s a fair point, I was just wondering if they had a specific theory as to why it suddenly changed since they were asserting that it had.
No I’m not implying any conclusion with my post. Smartphones actually massively improved grammar on the internet through the joys of autocorrect in my experience
Ah, fair enough. My bad for assuming.
I’ve on the Internet for the same amount of time and it’s gotten MUCH worse.
I mean everybody has their own experience so I’m not gonna tell you you’re wrong, but that’s not been my experience.
I spent more than 10 years playing text-based roleplaying games (MUSHes) from like ~1993 on, and even people who had multiple scenes a day that were well beyond short story length were frequently just god-awful at spelling. I had a lot of bad habits I picked up from back then that I’ve had to break, some of which (misspelling ‘separate’ as ‘seperate’, f.ex) that still get me sometimes. So at the very least there has been no shortage of awful spelling in the early days of the internet.
By the same token I now spend at least an hour or two a day reading lemmy, reddit, etc and usually several more playing video games where I should’ve been exposed to all this awful typing going on and I have not noticed an increase, much less one worthy of capital letters.
So, I’m not saying it’s impossible, just that as someone who has spent a significant portion of their life reading text on the internet it doesn’t seem likely to me.
Yep it’s always been shit.
It’s been awful for a while.
All the too/to/two or their/they’re/there kind of wreckage along with stuff like “for all intensive purposes”, “flee market”, or “diffuse the situation”.
There’s tons of writing like that everywhere. Wouldn’t be so bad if people learned when corrected, but I think most can’t be bothered.
My take is that people don’t read anymore along with probably an unhealthy dose of laziness and “gotta write all messed up to act cool” to boot.
Reading well-written books of any sort will help the mind fix how words go together and how they’re spelled. But today everyone reads everyone else’s shitty grammar, spelling, and whatever massacre of stylistic choices were made to stand out and look cool in the comment section of the youtube videos or tiktoks they just watched. That’s probably the extent of the reading they do.
I no phone gudz mane.
No, but really typing on a glass slab sucks. The software sucks ass too and seemingly no OEM is interested in improving it or trying something new.
Android’s spellchecker sucks at handling 2 languages at once so I gotta turn it off and rely on the keyboard’s auto correct.
Both FUTO and Heliboard insist on not correcting obvious misspellings or change correct words to nonexistent ones.I’m convinced we’ve gotten the maximum we can out of the touchscreen QWERTY format. EIther we get a new Blackberry KeyOne style device or we get some stenography-like software innovation that converts vibes to words, I dunno.
I am pretty sure android is getting worse at correcting input and also changes words after the fact as you type, coupled with phones are awful to type on, results in this fucking mess we get now days.
Big tech realised that touch screen keyboards are cheaper to manufacture (develop) than physical keyboards and persuaded everyone that touch screen keyboards are better. Absolutely not. Screw touch screen keyboards.
The Android keyboard always worked well for me, but I don’t trust them one bit. So I changed my phone keyboard into something that is worse at guessing what I’m trying to say, but I’m somewhat confident I am not being surveilled through it.
I started using it a month or two ago, and ever since I have started making a billion typos when writing on mobile.
Also, I guess the demography of the communities you’re in matters. I think quite a few of us over here are not native speakers. Sometimes I’ll also write with my keyboard set to the wrong language by accident, “leasing to all mines” of freaky autocorrects.
Fuck the people who get simple words wrong. Our language is degrading as tikok and video shorts are on the rise and attention spans decline.
Soon enough people won’t have the attention span to even write anymore.
There’s a few I’ve noticed in the last seven years or so - lots of Americans can’t seem to conjugate “run”. It results in horrible sentences like “I used to ran this game” or “I have ran this event before”. No idea why that’s happening but squirt those people with a plant mister.
It’s even worse than people who don’t finish the words they’re writing “suppose to” and the like. In the brine with thee!
The distinction between simple past and past participle is disappearing in English more generally. I’m curious whether it will be considered quaint to distinguish them before I’m dead.
I’m always perplexed when I see porn videos with titles that use the continuous present rather than the simple present. One would have thought that the simple present would be the basic stuff for English as a second language, rather than the much less useful continuous present.
I speak a couple of languages in which there is no continuous present, but rather they use phrases such as “I sit and study Swedish” to mean “I’m studying Swedish (as in right now, that’s the task I’m doing)” or “I am in the process of reading a book”. They don’t change the form of the verb to highlight this continuous aspect, so perhaps they aren’t used to it.
Add to that that the continuous aspect in English is surprisingly complicated and arbitrary. If you try to nail down rules for how and when to use it, you might struggle. 😉 Folks struggling to use it correctly might be overcorrecting or merely confused.
There are, I’m sure, other reasons, but this is enough to account for some of what you’re seeing.
Almost 10 years ago I began to see this trend online and at work where people were misspelling ‘separate’ as ‘seperate’ and I am still irrationally angered by it.
I know it’s on your exclusion list, but my phone autocorrects its to it’s every time. I have to catch it and backspace to restore it.
Autocorrecting a misspelled word is one thing. Autocorrecting a correctly spelled word for a more common word is just wrong.
Can only speak for myself, but I think backspace is probably one of my most used keys, the number of typos I make. Generally, I don’t miss these*, but when proofreading or rewriting parts of comments I occasionally leave a word in from a previous iteration or take one out that I meant to leave in, throwing a wrench into the flow.
I can easily imagine that for some people that goes to another level and they might be too tired or stressed to be able to even notice, let alone fix the mistakes they make. There’s also some level of short attention span going on and people may not be bothered to fix it because they have to be off to the next piece of content or contributing elsewhere.
* The spell-checking red squiggly underline admittedly being something of a crutch. I’ve noticed an increase in the number of longer or more obscure words that I’m sure I was getting right before but now not so much. And about once a day, on average, I reckon, I reach for right-click to figure out precisely what I’m getting wrong because I can’t figure it out.
Most of the time, I’ve missed a letter or am woefully wrong, but very occasionally it’s not in the built-in dictionary and online dictionaries basically say it’s fine. And the-e-en I rewrite to avoid the word anyway. Not everyone’s going to do that.
Not sure about the trend but I know my absolute bottom tier skillz are language related. in school low grades in spelling, then grammar, then foreign language. At the end of college I swapped transcripts with a friend and his comment was something like. Wow you get pretty good grades, oh. except in spanish. Basically the only reason I stopped getting bad grades in something like spelling is that it stopped being a class.
Ableism
Reductionist. There are valid concerns for why you’d want and expect proper spelling. Hell, you could even argue that not using proper spelling is ableist towards people who use screen readers or are ESL.
I can see where you are coming from. My BIL has learning difficulties and was borderline illiterate before smart phones enabled him to communicate in situations he otherwise wouldn’t have been able to. Unfortunately the “like” button still causes issues such as when he liked/shared a meme of a scantily clad black lady with the subtitle “When a n*gga dick hits just right” or something along those lines on facebook - his black cousin was quite offended by that.
That said, I agree with the other commenter that ableism is highly situationally dependent. Screen readers do not handle misspellings well like they mentioned. In my opinon it would be ableist if you were debating with someone or downvoted them due to an ad hominen dislike of their spelling as opposed to their sentiment.
That in itself is discriminatory, I have ADHD but it doesn’t mean I’m retarded.
I got perfect scores in english and grammar throughout highschool, passed the ap test, perfect scores on english portions of sap/act, passed the ap test, therefore didn’t do any english/writing courses in college. (Gotten out of practice, when it comes to the correct way to type) I technically learned english 2nd and didn’tunderstand it in kindergarden so my internal logic has always been that I’ve proven myself and I don’t need to spell or use grammar correctly anymore.
I’ve already proven objectively that I have a firm grasp on the english language, so now I just let the errors fly. The logic is terrible, but i’ll go with whatever justifies my actions lol. People used to make fun of how I speakx so Id show them my grades and ask them if they are sure that they are the one speaking English correctly.
Also theres fr no reason to police spelling/grammar if the points gets across, being concise and clear is more important always.
No, I think you does have point, I’ve been sawing that, too.
Look at Mr fancy pants here using punctuation like yer some kinda edumacated person of learneding
I scenes it to scenes it many time. OP is rite is got extream. Happnd all the sudden to
Youse*
Et oak thoug we awl mess that juan.
Don’t forget the internet is global. People for whom English is a second language are much more common than they once were.
True. Good point.
Came here to say that.
Yes yes you and many others have pointed this dumb take out already. I’m also a second language English speaker, and no one in my family even speaks English or ever has, and I’d never make a mistake like this.
My spelling and grammar are a lot worse when I type on my phone. I also accidentally a word.
I don’t bother with correcting it since I don’t care.
