Seriously. I wonder why European countries aren’t massively jumping on this opportunity. Like every developed country, the nations of Europe need immigrants to prop up their demographics. Most of Europe’s immigrants have been coming from countries in the global South. And while such immigrants have done well for the nations of Europe, there will always be less friction in bringing in immigrants from countries of more similar culture. Fuck any racists who hate Muslims. But the cold truth is it’s probably a lot easier to integrate large numbers of politically liberal Americans into European countries than it is to integrate immigrants from Muslim countries. European countries desperately need immigration, but right wing politics is on the rise, in large part due to the frictions of immigration. Obviously American and European cultures are not the same; there are still very real cultural differences. But European vs. American culture is far closer than many other cultural pairings out there.
European countries do have some very limited ancestry-based immigration policies. But they usually only go back a generation or two. If your parent or grandparent immigrated from a European country to the US, you can get easy immigration in a lot of EU countries. But for most Americans of European descent, that immigration happened generations ago.
If the EU countries were clever right now, they could take advantage of this opportunity to bring in large numbers of disaffected Americans. They could offer relocation assistance, make it cheap and easy for educated American progressives to pack their bags and jump the pond. And in exchange they get workers in their economies they don’t have to train to educate, and immigrants who would assimilate quite readily into the existing cultural milieu.
Hell, personally, I’m a typical American in that I have a hodgepodge of European ancestry. But my ancestors came over before 1900, there’s nowhere in Europe I qualify for immigration based on ancestry. But if one of the countries my ancestors came from wanted to made it cheap and easy for me to return to the old country, I would jump on that.
Hell, the politics of it sell itself. Bill it politically as “bringing the European diaspora home.”
But the cold truth is it’s probably a lot easier to integrate large numbers of politically liberal Americans into European countries than it is to integrate immigrants from Muslim countries
I genuinely don’t think it makes a big difference for like 99% of immigrants. The process is pretty much the same. Gotta find work, a home and learn the language. The cultural friction you mentioned mostly affects the immigrants themselves rather than society as a whole.
Plus there are already ways for Americans to move here, especially skilled workers. There are some hurdles of course but it’s doable. Don’t really see why we should make it any easier except for potential refugees like Latin Americans and queer people.
At an individual level you are right. But this is more an issue with numbers. Immigrants do not just bring themselves; they also bring their culture. Think of it this way. Let’s say Germany decides to bring over a million politically disaffected American progressives. How many mosques do you think those million people will want to build in their new home? Maybe one or two, there will be some Muslims in that group. But most of those million won’t even be religious. And most of those that are will just help fill the pews of half-empty German churches. There won’t be a titanic shift in the German religious landscape from these million American immigrants.
Immigration starts having issues not at the individual level, but the societal level. Too many immigrants too quickly, and people start feeling like their culture is being replaced. The slower assimilation happens, the more people start feeling like their culture is being replaced. The more culturally different the immigrant population is from the native population, and the more people feel like their culture is being replaced. And the more people feel like their culture is being replaced, the more they start voting for hard right parties like AfD.
There’s nothing wrong with Muslims or with people building mosques. But I mention mosques because they are a highly visible symbol of immigrant populations with very different cultures, a symbol that right wing politicians gleefully exploit.
If Germany brings over a million disaffected Americans, what culturally disruptive things will they bring? I guess Germany will get some more McDonalds franchises and a few other American brands? But those million Americans really aren’t going to stir things up too much. It’s not like you’re going to let the Americans bring their guns with them. They’ll have to leave those behind. And the big gun nuts aren’t likely to take Germany up on its immigration offer in the first place.
And just due to genetics, give it a generation or two, and you won’t even able to tell who is descended from those immigrants without checking ancestry records. The first generation will be noticeably American, but the second, third, or fourth? Indistinguishable from the native German population. Completely assimilated.
Funny there was a town/region in Norway (i think, it’s been a long time) that had proposed such a plan. I thought it was Ringke or somesuch, but it came off as really racist, like the “we only want the white ones back” sort of thing. Not sure what became of it.
Yeah it’s a political tight rope. And you definitely wouldn’t want to put in place any kind of horrific race or skin color requirements. You don’t want some nightmare Nazi-esque racial fraction rule. Literally just, “did you have an ancestor from this country? Ok, you can come here.” And yeah, if Norway decides to do that, then there will be some black Americans who happen to have some Norwegian ancestors who want to move there. And you have to be OK with that. There aren’t millions of pure-blooded Norwegian Americans sitting around in the US eagerly waiting their chance to return to the homeland. There are instead people like myself. I have ancestors from all over Western Europe. The single biggest chunk of my ancestry is Norwegian, but that piece is still only like 1/4 of my ancestors. I have ancestors from Norway, Germany, France, England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, and bunch of places I don’t even know about. For all intents and purposes, my ancestry is just “generic white American.” American was once called “the great melting pot” for a reason.
It’s a political tight rope. There’s a good argument to be made for it from a purely practical perspective. If immigrants are needed, why not recruit immigrants from countries that are most similar to yours culturally? Sure, Norway and the US aren’t as similar as Norway and Denmark. But there aren’t tons of Danish immigrants just waiting for a chance to move to Norway. And while not the same, Norway and the US are a hell of a lot more similar than Norway and Afghanistan are.
If Norway imports 100,000 disaffected politically liberal Americans, how many mosques do you think those new immigrants are going to want to build there? Most probably won’t even be religious, and most of those that are will just help fill the pews of the already half-empty Norwegian churches. There’s nothing wrong with building mosques. But again, we’re talking about cultural friction here. Too much change too quick, and people feel like their culture is being replaced, and they start voting for reactionary politicians. One population intrinsically causes less disruption in integration than another. And if you need immigrants, why not select from those immigrants that can most easily assimilate into the existing culture? Normally this is a moot point. There normally isn’t a potential reserve of millions of culturally-similar immigrants that European countries could draw upon. But right now, due to the political situation in the US, there actually are millions of such potential culturally-similar immigrants.
There’s a good practical argument, but it’s hard to make the case without making yourself sound like a militant racist.
It seems like the obvious solution is to use education and career experience to bring folks over that will support their economies. The side benefit will be relatively good cultural alignment. No need to bring race into this at all, just do the brain drain.
The goal will be to send Americans to die in war in Greenland and other countries through drafts. They will use American citizens to fight against the allied nations of World War Two. They will send you to die against your friends. Open your fucking eyes.
If we all go in on a boat we can invade Ireland
They can’t stop us all
Seriously. I wonder why European countries aren’t massively jumping on this opportunity. Like every developed country, the nations of Europe need immigrants to prop up their demographics. Most of Europe’s immigrants have been coming from countries in the global South. And while such immigrants have done well for the nations of Europe, there will always be less friction in bringing in immigrants from countries of more similar culture. Fuck any racists who hate Muslims. But the cold truth is it’s probably a lot easier to integrate large numbers of politically liberal Americans into European countries than it is to integrate immigrants from Muslim countries. European countries desperately need immigration, but right wing politics is on the rise, in large part due to the frictions of immigration. Obviously American and European cultures are not the same; there are still very real cultural differences. But European vs. American culture is far closer than many other cultural pairings out there.
European countries do have some very limited ancestry-based immigration policies. But they usually only go back a generation or two. If your parent or grandparent immigrated from a European country to the US, you can get easy immigration in a lot of EU countries. But for most Americans of European descent, that immigration happened generations ago.
If the EU countries were clever right now, they could take advantage of this opportunity to bring in large numbers of disaffected Americans. They could offer relocation assistance, make it cheap and easy for educated American progressives to pack their bags and jump the pond. And in exchange they get workers in their economies they don’t have to train to educate, and immigrants who would assimilate quite readily into the existing cultural milieu.
Hell, personally, I’m a typical American in that I have a hodgepodge of European ancestry. But my ancestors came over before 1900, there’s nowhere in Europe I qualify for immigration based on ancestry. But if one of the countries my ancestors came from wanted to made it cheap and easy for me to return to the old country, I would jump on that.
Hell, the politics of it sell itself. Bill it politically as “bringing the European diaspora home.”
I genuinely don’t think it makes a big difference for like 99% of immigrants. The process is pretty much the same. Gotta find work, a home and learn the language. The cultural friction you mentioned mostly affects the immigrants themselves rather than society as a whole.
Plus there are already ways for Americans to move here, especially skilled workers. There are some hurdles of course but it’s doable. Don’t really see why we should make it any easier except for potential refugees like Latin Americans and queer people.
At an individual level you are right. But this is more an issue with numbers. Immigrants do not just bring themselves; they also bring their culture. Think of it this way. Let’s say Germany decides to bring over a million politically disaffected American progressives. How many mosques do you think those million people will want to build in their new home? Maybe one or two, there will be some Muslims in that group. But most of those million won’t even be religious. And most of those that are will just help fill the pews of half-empty German churches. There won’t be a titanic shift in the German religious landscape from these million American immigrants.
Immigration starts having issues not at the individual level, but the societal level. Too many immigrants too quickly, and people start feeling like their culture is being replaced. The slower assimilation happens, the more people start feeling like their culture is being replaced. The more culturally different the immigrant population is from the native population, and the more people feel like their culture is being replaced. And the more people feel like their culture is being replaced, the more they start voting for hard right parties like AfD.
There’s nothing wrong with Muslims or with people building mosques. But I mention mosques because they are a highly visible symbol of immigrant populations with very different cultures, a symbol that right wing politicians gleefully exploit.
If Germany brings over a million disaffected Americans, what culturally disruptive things will they bring? I guess Germany will get some more McDonalds franchises and a few other American brands? But those million Americans really aren’t going to stir things up too much. It’s not like you’re going to let the Americans bring their guns with them. They’ll have to leave those behind. And the big gun nuts aren’t likely to take Germany up on its immigration offer in the first place.
And just due to genetics, give it a generation or two, and you won’t even able to tell who is descended from those immigrants without checking ancestry records. The first generation will be noticeably American, but the second, third, or fourth? Indistinguishable from the native German population. Completely assimilated.
Funny there was a town/region in Norway (i think, it’s been a long time) that had proposed such a plan. I thought it was Ringke or somesuch, but it came off as really racist, like the “we only want the white ones back” sort of thing. Not sure what became of it.
Yeah it’s a political tight rope. And you definitely wouldn’t want to put in place any kind of horrific race or skin color requirements. You don’t want some nightmare Nazi-esque racial fraction rule. Literally just, “did you have an ancestor from this country? Ok, you can come here.” And yeah, if Norway decides to do that, then there will be some black Americans who happen to have some Norwegian ancestors who want to move there. And you have to be OK with that. There aren’t millions of pure-blooded Norwegian Americans sitting around in the US eagerly waiting their chance to return to the homeland. There are instead people like myself. I have ancestors from all over Western Europe. The single biggest chunk of my ancestry is Norwegian, but that piece is still only like 1/4 of my ancestors. I have ancestors from Norway, Germany, France, England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, and bunch of places I don’t even know about. For all intents and purposes, my ancestry is just “generic white American.” American was once called “the great melting pot” for a reason.
It’s a political tight rope. There’s a good argument to be made for it from a purely practical perspective. If immigrants are needed, why not recruit immigrants from countries that are most similar to yours culturally? Sure, Norway and the US aren’t as similar as Norway and Denmark. But there aren’t tons of Danish immigrants just waiting for a chance to move to Norway. And while not the same, Norway and the US are a hell of a lot more similar than Norway and Afghanistan are.
If Norway imports 100,000 disaffected politically liberal Americans, how many mosques do you think those new immigrants are going to want to build there? Most probably won’t even be religious, and most of those that are will just help fill the pews of the already half-empty Norwegian churches. There’s nothing wrong with building mosques. But again, we’re talking about cultural friction here. Too much change too quick, and people feel like their culture is being replaced, and they start voting for reactionary politicians. One population intrinsically causes less disruption in integration than another. And if you need immigrants, why not select from those immigrants that can most easily assimilate into the existing culture? Normally this is a moot point. There normally isn’t a potential reserve of millions of culturally-similar immigrants that European countries could draw upon. But right now, due to the political situation in the US, there actually are millions of such potential culturally-similar immigrants.
There’s a good practical argument, but it’s hard to make the case without making yourself sound like a militant racist.
I think this guy has a point. Wonder why he’s downvoted.
Unavoidable ethnostatist undertones. Sounds a bit like the Right of Return. Won’t solve cost of living problems for current residents.
It seems like the obvious solution is to use education and career experience to bring folks over that will support their economies. The side benefit will be relatively good cultural alignment. No need to bring race into this at all, just do the brain drain.
The goal will be to send Americans to die in war in Greenland and other countries through drafts. They will use American citizens to fight against the allied nations of World War Two. They will send you to die against your friends. Open your fucking eyes.