Hayao Miyasaki is the co-founder of Studio Ghibli, a Japanese animation studio known worldwide for their stunning, emotional, beautiful stories and movies. At the core of Studio Ghibli’s work is a deep engagement with questions of humanity. About what it means to be a human, about how to care for one another and the world […]
Cool, another preachy argument that jumps to irrational conclusions.
Because Ghibli?
It is a display of power: You as an artist, an animator, an illustrator, a writer, any creative person are powerless. We will take what we want and do what we want. Because we can.
Uh…we always could & did.
Imitators have been doing that since always, long before LLMs.
No one owns an art style.
This is the idea of might makes right. The banner that every totalitarian and fascist government rallied under.
That’s the argument?
Plagiarism & imitating art styles is fascism?
Wow!
The rest of the article is worse.
I could go out and kill a person for supporting AI IP theft. I won’t because it goes against my moral code.
just goes to prove my theory that anyone that supports this kind of theft is not only devoid of any morals, but lacks the integrity expected of a contributing adult.
It doesn’t mean you shouldn’t, either.
It is a fallacy of modal logic to claim an action that is not one that should be done is an action that should not be done.
If we limited ourselves to doing what we should, then entertainment like Ghibli wouldn’t exist, and you wouldn’t write comments here.
There’s no reason you should write comments here, yet you did.
Does that mean you’re “devoid of any morals” & “lack the integrity expected of a contributing adult”?
Imitation & derivative works hardly rise to anything worth fussing or losing total perspective over.
If we pay attention, all human creativity is derivative, nothing is truly original.
Works build on & reference each other.
Techniques get refined.
It’s why we have genres.
From the Epic of Gilgamesh & ancient mythology to modern storytelling, or the development of perspective in graphical works across time, there’s a clear process of imitation & development across all of it.
Oddly enough, Princess Mononoke is inspired by the Cedar Forest guardian Humbaba from the Epic of Gilgamesh.
Should we also condemn Ghibli’s “lack of integrity” for their “intellectual property theft” from the ancient Mesopotamians?
If Ghibli were somehow deprived of economic gain & welfare due to others passing off derived work as their own, then you might have a point.
However, I doubt when they sincerely want to watch Ghibli, people decide instead to watch LLM generated stills on social media that no one would pay for.
They’re no substitute for real, creative output.
If anything, the increased exposure stirs interest in the real work of Ghibli.
Even the objection is speculation: the article doesn’t state Miyazaki objected, it merely argued he would.
So, no, you don’t have a real point here, either.
This is as much “theft” as any other imitative, derivative expression.
I’ll take free speech over decrying fake “theft”.
You know, I didn’t actually read your comment, but I glanced through enough to know you’re just making excuses for shitty behavior due to a lack of integrity.
the way it was written follows a pretty well known pattern, and I’m almost positive it was mostly written by an LLM.
sad really, people put effort into their responses on here and people who use LLMs just come along with some generated garbage and shit all over the platform.
more images of text
alt text that misleads people with accessibility needs
So just to be clear
false “IP theft” (derivative works in a similar style aren’t theft) that harms no one violates your moral code
discrimination that objectively disadvantages the disabled is fine to you.
Much can be understood about someone’s sense of morality in their actions (eligible for moral consideration) toward the disadvantaged.
Does that person treat others as that person would want to be treated by them?
Do they prioritize a cause that doesn’t address a credible harm over their easily addressable actions that do cause credible harm?
Your moral code & moral claims seem confused & mistaken.
It’s funny the largely anti-capitalist crowd doesn’t care about intellectual property until their favorite bogeyman shows up.
Then they suddenly “care”: whatever it takes to take down AI, right?
Even if it takes us down with it.
I don’t like weak arguments that try to manipulate our emotions with our favorite targets of animus, nebulous claims of threats to cherished values, misuse of the word fascism.
The person’s liberty to express themselves (even in ways we dislike with technology we dislike) is more important than an argument that rings false.
you threw in a red herring
Your moral hypocrisy?
The coherence of your “moral code”?
just to make personal attacks against me
Does it suck to be judged for the actions you’ve demonstrated here?
I’m also not here contemplating killing someone over dubious theft (of expressions!): that was all you.
when you are challenged you claim abelism
Also, whenever I come across it & feel moved: the casual inconsiderateness of online images of text is noticeable & easy to call out.
Instead of distracting nonsense, turning that useless online outrage & public shame toward something concrete we ourselves can address today (like web accessibility) might do some tangible good for a change.
Sustained long enough, it might catch on & make us more considerate in that 1 small yet noticeable way.
it’s really pathetic and gives differently-abled people a bad name. you should be ashamed of yourself
Does it?
Someone here should be ashamed.
If we’re done getting distracted with ourselves, the point remains that the article is a manipulative argument lacking substance.
Are we pretending this is new & their opinion matters in some new way it hasn’t before?
There might be an argument to demand licensing royalties on intellectual property.
Is that too capitalist?
Maybe it’s fine if we work that into the word fascism somehow, wear it out a bit more to hit that sweet spot.
Ooh.
No. We’re acting as if their opinion always mattered just as much as it does now.
While your style is not, can not, and should not be your intellectual property, you should have the right to say “I don’t want you to imitate my exact style” and people should respect that.
How does “respect” “allow” an artist “unfettered creativity”?
How exactly is instructing others how to treat/imitate their work & expecting their wishes to be fulfilled promoting “unfettered creativity”?
Seems like the opposite.
Can you break that down into logic?
Are you suggesting artists are fragile beings whose creativity only exists at the mercy of our “respect” and the slightest disrespect breaks them?
That seems rather self-important.
I submit that artists don’t need our respect to be creative: the suggestion is belittling to artists.
The real point is the article fails to argue well.
I’m suggesting that disrespecting an artists wishes causes them unnecessary struggles which in turn unnecessarily makes it more difficult for them to do their work.
I respect your position, and I appreciate people who are willing to share their creativity in an inspiring way like that.
However, others don’t see it as flattery. Particularly in eastern cultures, it is seen as mockery or plagiarism. You can choose to disagree about why they don’t want you to imitate their style, but you should always respect the request.
If eastern cultures don’t like imitation, why are there a million identical isekai light novels with an average joe who dies, reincarnates in a slightly altered Dungeons and Dragons world, and gets a harem of women with huge breasts whose personalities are taken straight from TVtropes?
Cool, another preachy argument that jumps to irrational conclusions. Because Ghibli?
Uh…we always could & did. Imitators have been doing that since always, long before LLMs. No one owns an art style.
That’s the argument? Plagiarism & imitating art styles is fascism? Wow! The rest of the article is worse.
Please make the word fascism more meaningless.
just because you can doesn’t mean you should.
I could go out and kill a person for supporting AI IP theft. I won’t because it goes against my moral code.
just goes to prove my theory that anyone that supports this kind of theft is not only devoid of any morals, but lacks the integrity expected of a contributing adult.
It doesn’t mean you shouldn’t, either. It is a fallacy of modal logic to claim an action that is not one that should be done is an action that should not be done.
If we limited ourselves to doing what we should, then entertainment like Ghibli wouldn’t exist, and you wouldn’t write comments here. There’s no reason you should write comments here, yet you did. Does that mean you’re “devoid of any morals” & “lack the integrity expected of a contributing adult”?
Imitation & derivative works hardly rise to anything worth fussing or losing total perspective over. If we pay attention, all human creativity is derivative, nothing is truly original. Works build on & reference each other. Techniques get refined. It’s why we have genres. From the Epic of Gilgamesh & ancient mythology to modern storytelling, or the development of perspective in graphical works across time, there’s a clear process of imitation & development across all of it.
Oddly enough, Princess Mononoke is inspired by the Cedar Forest guardian Humbaba from the Epic of Gilgamesh. Should we also condemn Ghibli’s “lack of integrity” for their “intellectual property theft” from the ancient Mesopotamians?
If Ghibli were somehow deprived of economic gain & welfare due to others passing off derived work as their own, then you might have a point. However, I doubt when they sincerely want to watch Ghibli, people decide instead to watch LLM generated stills on social media that no one would pay for. They’re no substitute for real, creative output. If anything, the increased exposure stirs interest in the real work of Ghibli. Even the objection is speculation: the article doesn’t state Miyazaki objected, it merely argued he would. So, no, you don’t have a real point here, either.
This is as much “theft” as any other imitative, derivative expression. I’ll take free speech over decrying fake “theft”.
You know, I didn’t actually read your comment, but I glanced through enough to know you’re just making excuses for shitty behavior due to a lack of integrity.
the way it was written follows a pretty well known pattern, and I’m almost positive it was mostly written by an LLM.
sad really, people put effort into their responses on here and people who use LLMs just come along with some generated garbage and shit all over the platform.
Well, you’re wrong.
And you’re ableist for that. Good job.
So just to be clear
Much can be understood about someone’s sense of morality in their actions (eligible for moral consideration) toward the disadvantaged. Does that person treat others as that person would want to be treated by them? Do they prioritize a cause that doesn’t address a credible harm over their easily addressable actions that do cause credible harm?
Your moral code & moral claims seem confused & mistaken.
you’re a bad troll.
first of all, the entire thread was about AI IP theft. you threw in a red herring just to make personal attacks against me as being abelist.
in-fact, from what I’ve seen in your comment history, when you are challenged you claim abelism.
it’s really pathetic and gives differently-abled people a bad name. you should be ashamed of yourself, but we all know trolls feed off of the shame.
Haters gonna hate.
Answered: that part you didn’t read.
It’s funny the largely anti-capitalist crowd doesn’t care about intellectual property until their favorite bogeyman shows up. Then they suddenly “care”: whatever it takes to take down AI, right? Even if it takes us down with it.
I don’t like weak arguments that try to manipulate our emotions with our favorite targets of animus, nebulous claims of threats to cherished values, misuse of the word fascism. The person’s liberty to express themselves (even in ways we dislike with technology we dislike) is more important than an argument that rings false.
Your moral hypocrisy? The coherence of your “moral code”?
Does it suck to be judged for the actions you’ve demonstrated here?
I’m also not here contemplating killing someone over dubious theft (of expressions!): that was all you.
Also, whenever I come across it & feel moved: the casual inconsiderateness of online images of text is noticeable & easy to call out. Instead of distracting nonsense, turning that useless online outrage & public shame toward something concrete we ourselves can address today (like web accessibility) might do some tangible good for a change. Sustained long enough, it might catch on & make us more considerate in that 1 small yet noticeable way.
Does it? Someone here should be ashamed.
If we’re done getting distracted with ourselves, the point remains that the article is a manipulative argument lacking substance.
Exactly this is so frustrating that people fall in for copyright propaganda just because “big tech is bad”.
Ghibli doesn’t own a style. It has sbeen made by thousands of animators and millions of illustrations and influences before them.
This is not the way to get back at big tech.
Fill me in a bit. Are you under the impression that artists are particularly okay with/enjoy people imitating their art style?
Are we pretending this is new & their opinion matters in some new way it hasn’t before?
There might be an argument to demand licensing royalties on intellectual property. Is that too capitalist? Maybe it’s fine if we work that into the word fascism somehow, wear it out a bit more to hit that sweet spot. Ooh.
No. We’re acting as if their opinion always mattered just as much as it does now.
While your style is not, can not, and should not be your intellectual property, you should have the right to say “I don’t want you to imitate my exact style” and people should respect that.
So not at all: got it.
You do.
“That’s just like your opinion, man.” meme goes here.
The argument seems to amount to “stop using/imitating my work to express yourself in ways I don’t like”, which is futile & senseless.
So, to recap, your position is this:
Artists do not deserve the respect that would allow them to be creative unfettered. Gotcha.
How does “respect” “allow” an artist “unfettered creativity”? How exactly is instructing others how to treat/imitate their work & expecting their wishes to be fulfilled promoting “unfettered creativity”? Seems like the opposite. Can you break that down into logic?
Are you suggesting artists are fragile beings whose creativity only exists at the mercy of our “respect” and the slightest disrespect breaks them? That seems rather self-important.
I submit that artists don’t need our respect to be creative: the suggestion is belittling to artists.
The real point is the article fails to argue well.
I didn’t say they needed respect to be creative. I said they needed respect to be creative unfettered.
Respectfully, I don’t see what unfettered here is adding. I clarified by editing the earlier comment to request to explain the logic.
I’m suggesting that disrespecting an artists wishes causes them unnecessary struggles which in turn unnecessarily makes it more difficult for them to do their work.
As an artist, when people imitate me, I take it as flattery.
When a machine imitates me, I take it as an insult to life itself.
This is an absolutely rational take.
Individual, noncommercial imitation is flattery.
LLM ripoff is exactly that.
I respect your position, and I appreciate people who are willing to share their creativity in an inspiring way like that.
However, others don’t see it as flattery. Particularly in eastern cultures, it is seen as mockery or plagiarism. You can choose to disagree about why they don’t want you to imitate their style, but you should always respect the request.
If eastern cultures don’t like imitation, why are there a million identical isekai light novels with an average joe who dies, reincarnates in a slightly altered Dungeons and Dragons world, and gets a harem of women with huge breasts whose personalities are taken straight from TVtropes?
Because humans suck?
Fair.
I might be flattered that someone bothered to make a machine do that. Massaging software to do that also takes skill?
When GitHub Copilot lifts my opensource code, I’m not offended. I only cringe a bit when it’s bad code I regret committing.